Clapon
06-06-2010, 05:14 AM
BALL_planepark is getting ridiculous.
http://altitudegame.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=489&d=1264364126
I have kept a running count - because I disbelieved my first impression - over the past four days every time we play this map in Ladder.
Well, over 70% of goals are scored by running the ball along the bottom passage and scoring with either a dunk or a layup.
There is a confluence of reasons for this.
1. Spawns directly block the top passage, making that route impractical. Compare vs spawns in Snow or Labyrinth.
2. The bottom tunnel is almost completely shielded from all defending planes that aren't coming head-on the other way. Compare vs similar passages in Mayhem or Darkwar.
3. The tunnel is too narrow and too easily mined or walled, and the floor is completely smooth making dribbling easy. Compare vs similar passages in Lost City.
It's too easy to pass the ball down through the wide opening near the center of the map, then run it up and avoid confrontation with the defenders until you emerge right near the goal.
Conversely it's hard to clear the ball FROM the tunnel so once it gets down there, it stays.
I have seen games where the other team is full of clutch passers and great teamwork and we won because we threw the ball down there, walled it up, and then just kept pushing until someone dunked.
Maps should reward good teamwork. Snow for example is a good map because of all the curves - the ball just won't go anywhere unless you pass it.
I know people will say LARN 2 PLAY PALIN but Planepark is not good. It's pretty and took a lot of effort to make and we want to encourage map creation but bad maps should not be on Ladder.
I challenge anyone who disagrees with my analysis to keep a count of 10+ games and see what percent of goals come from which angle of attack.
Funnelpark is fine. It's not a lot of fun but it doesn't have this broken problem.
Nothing wrong with the map just learn to defend it and use it yourself. it isnt always the best way to go as like you said its easily mined and walled therefor totally stopping any pushes and there are many good passes to be made on the map so im not sure where your going with that.
A good defensive whale is a BIG aspect here or at least some whale that knows how to stay back and not over extend themselves down field.
Either way map is working as intended no need to "fix" something not broken or take the map out as it is a solid ball map.
http://altitudegame.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=489&d=1264364126
I have kept a running count - because I disbelieved my first impression - over the past four days every time we play this map in Ladder.
Well, over 70% of goals are scored by running the ball along the bottom passage and scoring with either a dunk or a layup.
There is a confluence of reasons for this.
1. Spawns directly block the top passage, making that route impractical. Compare vs spawns in Snow or Labyrinth.
2. The bottom tunnel is almost completely shielded from all defending planes that aren't coming head-on the other way. Compare vs similar passages in Mayhem or Darkwar.
3. The tunnel is too narrow and too easily mined or walled, and the floor is completely smooth making dribbling easy. Compare vs similar passages in Lost City.
It's too easy to pass the ball down through the wide opening near the center of the map, then run it up and avoid confrontation with the defenders until you emerge right near the goal.
Conversely it's hard to clear the ball FROM the tunnel so once it gets down there, it stays.
I have seen games where the other team is full of clutch passers and great teamwork and we won because we threw the ball down there, walled it up, and then just kept pushing until someone dunked.
Maps should reward good teamwork. Snow for example is a good map because of all the curves - the ball just won't go anywhere unless you pass it.
I know people will say LARN 2 PLAY PALIN but Planepark is not good. It's pretty and took a lot of effort to make and we want to encourage map creation but bad maps should not be on Ladder.
I challenge anyone who disagrees with my analysis to keep a count of 10+ games and see what percent of goals come from which angle of attack.
Funnelpark is fine. It's not a lot of fun but it doesn't have this broken problem.
Nothing wrong with the map just learn to defend it and use it yourself. it isnt always the best way to go as like you said its easily mined and walled therefor totally stopping any pushes and there are many good passes to be made on the map so im not sure where your going with that.
A good defensive whale is a BIG aspect here or at least some whale that knows how to stay back and not over extend themselves down field.
Either way map is working as intended no need to "fix" something not broken or take the map out as it is a solid ball map.
Evan20000
06-06-2010, 06:25 AM
Randas eat things alive on the low route as well.
nobodyhome
06-06-2010, 10:09 AM
what i go away for a day and then 20 posts happen! why is it that ladder thread is quiet for weeks and then all of a sudden it floods?!
anyways gonna take this moment to inflate my post count by responding in several separate posts.
anyways gonna take this moment to inflate my post count by responding in several separate posts.
nobodyhome
06-06-2010, 10:13 AM
Let me explain the whole story.
... yadda yadda yadda...
Remove my ban please, because there is no proof it was me. And if you can find the screen shot, I can proof It was radium or woken.
Thanks and sorry for the misunderstanding
Ban extended to 7 days for lying. Also you have been previously banned (like seriously, your old ban JUST finished. if you only just came back and you cause a problem within 24 hours then what are we supposed to think about that?) and so your next ban was supposed to be longer anyways.
... yadda yadda yadda...
Remove my ban please, because there is no proof it was me. And if you can find the screen shot, I can proof It was radium or woken.
Thanks and sorry for the misunderstanding
Ban extended to 7 days for lying. Also you have been previously banned (like seriously, your old ban JUST finished. if you only just came back and you cause a problem within 24 hours then what are we supposed to think about that?) and so your next ban was supposed to be longer anyways.
nobodyhome
06-06-2010, 10:13 AM
Ok,
I got banned today too/
Santana KLF player goes AFK, but he not set up as spector, then how the other team can sit as usual...
he was flying in circles for like 5 minutes
The only option was try to kick him -.- i know its worng
Tomorrowz is my only full free day, pls
pls, i have like 500 ladder games,
at least 24 hours.
Rye reduced your ban to 24 hours only.
I got banned today too/
Santana KLF player goes AFK, but he not set up as spector, then how the other team can sit as usual...
he was flying in circles for like 5 minutes
The only option was try to kick him -.- i know its worng
Tomorrowz is my only full free day, pls
pls, i have like 500 ladder games,
at least 24 hours.
Rye reduced your ban to 24 hours only.
nobodyhome
06-06-2010, 10:19 AM
nobody,
I wonder if we can set up something for Australia/Asia region to play ladder?
Coding wise it is actually somewhat difficult (i.e. I can't think of a way it'll actually work without bugs) to set up ladder servers in multiple regions. I'll think more about this (probably not until after the reset) but you shouldn't count on it, sorry =\. Plus, australia/asia is the lowest traffic region out of northamerica/europe/asia-australia I believe, so it's on a lower priority than a european server.
I wonder if we can set up something for Australia/Asia region to play ladder?
Coding wise it is actually somewhat difficult (i.e. I can't think of a way it'll actually work without bugs) to set up ladder servers in multiple regions. I'll think more about this (probably not until after the reset) but you shouldn't count on it, sorry =\. Plus, australia/asia is the lowest traffic region out of northamerica/europe/asia-australia I believe, so it's on a lower priority than a european server.
nobodyhome
06-06-2010, 10:25 AM
When playing on the map Underpark me and many others experience an unexplained choppyness with our Altitude (with movement not visuals). I have tried /parafalse and that made it no better. I have talked to the person who created this map (Mandrad) with Maimer's assistance and they are aware of the choppiness and at this time have no idea how to fix it. If any other experienced map makers (pig ect) would like to assist in the identification of the problem Mandrad would appreciate it. Until such a time this problem is fixed I'd like to see Underpark removed from the ladder map pool. Also take out Bowser's Castle, it has the same problem but in addition the map is just ****ing stupid to have in a competitive environment.
Yeah, I'm well aware that something is wrong with underpark's graphics (you can check my posts on the tbd_underpark thread in map making forum, i initially thought it was some parallax thing but now i'm not so sure). I am aware of this, but currently the ladder is in "off season", which means i am just gonna keep it up there for testing/map feedback purposes because extreme competitiveness is not the highest priority right now. feel free to vote stop tournament it if everyone hates it though.
bowser's castle... understood about the graphics, but i've yet to see a single reason given for why people dislike bowser's castle. the only obvious one i can think of is that it's a mario map. unfortunately i don't care that the graphics are mario, it doesn't make it inappropriate in my eyes--is there an actual gameplay reason for why you dislike bowser's castle?
keep the feedback coming about these maps, remember, i put this maps on for experimental purposes sorta. remember this thread: http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3283 that i accidently posted in the league forums and was never moved.
Yeah, I'm well aware that something is wrong with underpark's graphics (you can check my posts on the tbd_underpark thread in map making forum, i initially thought it was some parallax thing but now i'm not so sure). I am aware of this, but currently the ladder is in "off season", which means i am just gonna keep it up there for testing/map feedback purposes because extreme competitiveness is not the highest priority right now. feel free to vote stop tournament it if everyone hates it though.
bowser's castle... understood about the graphics, but i've yet to see a single reason given for why people dislike bowser's castle. the only obvious one i can think of is that it's a mario map. unfortunately i don't care that the graphics are mario, it doesn't make it inappropriate in my eyes--is there an actual gameplay reason for why you dislike bowser's castle?
keep the feedback coming about these maps, remember, i put this maps on for experimental purposes sorta. remember this thread: http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3283 that i accidently posted in the league forums and was never moved.
nobodyhome
06-06-2010, 10:27 AM
BALL_planepark is getting ridiculous.
etc etc etc,
i agree with you that the bottom path is kinda meh, but from tgleaf's survey and in-game/forum sensing of the community's opinion, it seems like people think planepark is one of the better maps.
so not gonna take it out sorry.
etc etc etc,
i agree with you that the bottom path is kinda meh, but from tgleaf's survey and in-game/forum sensing of the community's opinion, it seems like people think planepark is one of the better maps.
so not gonna take it out sorry.
nobodyhome
06-06-2010, 10:31 AM
I got banned today too, but i deserved it.
Thanks for not being a whiner like some other people.
And as long as people play random map and half the maps in the pool are terrible I will continue refusing to play. Just pick a map, it's not hard.
I might consider lowering the ratio for voting an actual map rather than random. right now, part of the reason why people do random instead of picking a map is because the vote threshold for random is 60% whereas the one for picking a map is 80%. i did this to incentivize doing random maps because before, everybody was cycling around core/asteroids/grotto/cave incessantly. now that people seem to actually play a variety of maps i might change it.
and i understand that you think the map pool is terrible (and i don't completely disagree), but let me address that in a later post.
Thanks for not being a whiner like some other people.
And as long as people play random map and half the maps in the pool are terrible I will continue refusing to play. Just pick a map, it's not hard.
I might consider lowering the ratio for voting an actual map rather than random. right now, part of the reason why people do random instead of picking a map is because the vote threshold for random is 60% whereas the one for picking a map is 80%. i did this to incentivize doing random maps because before, everybody was cycling around core/asteroids/grotto/cave incessantly. now that people seem to actually play a variety of maps i might change it.
and i understand that you think the map pool is terrible (and i don't completely disagree), but let me address that in a later post.
nobodyhome
06-06-2010, 10:39 AM
as a general response to some of the more recent posts: yes, i know some people think some maps are bad, and i do agree that the map pool needs some changing. keep in mind that there really are only just very few good maps out there and i need to keep the map pool large in order to keep ladder fresh--the map pool would honestly be a lot better if more community members took a few hours out of their 1000+ hours of play to learn and make some damn maps (if you suck at drawing, make a layout and work with someone who can draw!)
about bowser's castle--sure, you think it's lol because you don't think it's serious because it's... well, bowser's castle, but stop and think: is it REALLY a bad map layout/gameplay wise? it might be bad, but in order for it to be dropped it has to be worse-layout-in-the-entire-map-pool-as-in-its-worse-than-loco-bad. keep in mind that i can't just drop a map because it has "bad layout", because if i did that then we'd be left with just asteroids/core/grotto/cave/focus/heights as the only ladder maps. it has to be THE WORST LAYOUT IN THE ENTIRE MAP POOL to warrant dropping.
about bowser's castle--sure, you think it's lol because you don't think it's serious because it's... well, bowser's castle, but stop and think: is it REALLY a bad map layout/gameplay wise? it might be bad, but in order for it to be dropped it has to be worse-layout-in-the-entire-map-pool-as-in-its-worse-than-loco-bad. keep in mind that i can't just drop a map because it has "bad layout", because if i did that then we'd be left with just asteroids/core/grotto/cave/focus/heights as the only ladder maps. it has to be THE WORST LAYOUT IN THE ENTIRE MAP POOL to warrant dropping.
Flight 666
06-06-2010, 10:44 AM
Rye reduced your ban to 24 hours only.
ty
10 charr.
ty
10 charr.
DMCM
06-06-2010, 11:02 AM
Thanks nobo.
For the record, when I got banned, the vote to start random was lower than 75% so a significant ammount of people didn't want to play random. And a significant ammount were displeased when they saw Locomotion. We even started a vote to stop tournament, which failed. That is no excuse for leaving a game, but it wasn't a solo act of rage.
As for the map pool. I think most people would agree that these should be there
Cave
Asteroids
Lostcity
Core (though I hate it personally)
Grotto
Heights
Woods
Fallout
Justice
Focus
Mayhem (maybe)
Then there's Middleground and Locomotion which usually make really long games, but they have always been played as official, so I don't know.
Scrapyard should not have been there before the community had at least tried them before in other servers, in my opinion. I think Scrapyard is actually a really nice map, but I had never played it before when I saw it in ladder.
For the record, when I got banned, the vote to start random was lower than 75% so a significant ammount of people didn't want to play random. And a significant ammount were displeased when they saw Locomotion. We even started a vote to stop tournament, which failed. That is no excuse for leaving a game, but it wasn't a solo act of rage.
As for the map pool. I think most people would agree that these should be there
Cave
Asteroids
Lostcity
Core (though I hate it personally)
Grotto
Heights
Woods
Fallout
Justice
Focus
Mayhem (maybe)
Then there's Middleground and Locomotion which usually make really long games, but they have always been played as official, so I don't know.
Scrapyard should not have been there before the community had at least tried them before in other servers, in my opinion. I think Scrapyard is actually a really nice map, but I had never played it before when I saw it in ladder.
[Y]
06-06-2010, 12:01 PM
Scrapyard should not have been there before the community had at least tried them before in other servers, in my opinion. I think Scrapyard is actually a really nice map, but I had never played it before when I saw it in ladder.
The ladder servers make for excellent testing grounds for new maps outside of official league games. I say keep adding new maps (loco2 (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3555), snow (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3664), blackhole (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3631), radioactive (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3381), cube (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3338)). Blackhole's OP screenies are old, and radioactive's actual screenie is in a post further down the page.
Also, if Mandrad isn't going to keep working on sketch (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3163), do others have permission to work on it?
The ladder servers make for excellent testing grounds for new maps outside of official league games. I say keep adding new maps (loco2 (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3555), snow (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3664), blackhole (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3631), radioactive (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3381), cube (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3338)). Blackhole's OP screenies are old, and radioactive's actual screenie is in a post further down the page.
Also, if Mandrad isn't going to keep working on sketch (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3163), do others have permission to work on it?
York
06-06-2010, 12:43 PM
Ban extended to 7 days for lying. Also you have been previously banned (like seriously, your old ban JUST finished. if you only just came back and you cause a problem within 24 hours then what are we supposed to think about that?) and so your next ban was supposed to be longer anyways.
Rye reduced your ban to 24 hours only.
Are you serious? I didn't lie. Ever. You extend my ban simply because I have just had a recent ban? Do you remember what my ban was for? For playing high. Where is the rules does it say I can't do that? Then you reduce flights simply because you guys like him? You should get your hand out from your pants.
Rye reduced your ban to 24 hours only.
Are you serious? I didn't lie. Ever. You extend my ban simply because I have just had a recent ban? Do you remember what my ban was for? For playing high. Where is the rules does it say I can't do that? Then you reduce flights simply because you guys like him? You should get your hand out from your pants.
Kuja900
06-06-2010, 01:50 PM
as a general response to some of the more recent posts: yes, i know some people think some maps are bad, and i do agree that the map pool needs some changing. keep in mind that there really are only just very few good maps out there and i need to keep the map pool large in order to keep ladder fresh--the map pool would honestly be a lot better if more community members took a few hours out of their 1000+ hours of play to learn and make some damn maps (if you suck at drawing, make a layout and work with someone who can draw!)
about bowser's castle--sure, you think it's lol because you don't think it's serious because it's... well, bowser's castle, but stop and think: is it REALLY a bad map layout/gameplay wise? it might be bad, but in order for it to be dropped it has to be worse-layout-in-the-entire-map-pool-as-in-its-worse-than-loco-bad. keep in mind that i can't just drop a map because it has "bad layout", because if i did that then we'd be left with just asteroids/core/grotto/cave/focus/heights as the only ladder maps. it has to be THE WORST LAYOUT IN THE ENTIRE MAP POOL to warrant dropping.
Well really what layout in the pool is worse? You could make an argument for Justice since there is an imbalance for one side however with /parafalse to get rid of the back round so I'm not blinded I find myself having no problem with the map. tbd_Nuclear>>>Bowser's Castle, Nuclear is not the best map and it would be in my bottom 3 however by comparison Bowser's has the grand trifecta of unexplained choppyness/bad layout/silly graphics.
about bowser's castle--sure, you think it's lol because you don't think it's serious because it's... well, bowser's castle, but stop and think: is it REALLY a bad map layout/gameplay wise? it might be bad, but in order for it to be dropped it has to be worse-layout-in-the-entire-map-pool-as-in-its-worse-than-loco-bad. keep in mind that i can't just drop a map because it has "bad layout", because if i did that then we'd be left with just asteroids/core/grotto/cave/focus/heights as the only ladder maps. it has to be THE WORST LAYOUT IN THE ENTIRE MAP POOL to warrant dropping.
Well really what layout in the pool is worse? You could make an argument for Justice since there is an imbalance for one side however with /parafalse to get rid of the back round so I'm not blinded I find myself having no problem with the map. tbd_Nuclear>>>Bowser's Castle, Nuclear is not the best map and it would be in my bottom 3 however by comparison Bowser's has the grand trifecta of unexplained choppyness/bad layout/silly graphics.
Kuja900
06-06-2010, 01:58 PM
Thanks nobo.
For the record, when I got banned, the vote to start random was lower than 75% so a significant ammount of people didn't want to play random. And a significant ammount were displeased when they saw Locomotion. We even started a vote to stop tournament, which failed. That is no excuse for leaving a game, but it wasn't a solo act of rage.
As for the map pool. I think most people would agree that these should be there
Cave
Asteroids
Lostcity
Core (though I hate it personally)
Grotto
Heights
Woods
Fallout
Justice
Focus
Mayhem (maybe)
Then there's Middleground and Locomotion which usually make really long games, but they have always been played as official, so I don't know.
Scrapyard should not have been there before the community had at least tried them before in other servers, in my opinion. I think Scrapyard is actually a really nice map, but I had never played it before when I saw it in ladder.
Yeah that mappool looks great to me with the addition of middleground and maybe even loco. Scrapyard is way too open in my opinion it needs some layout changes.
For the record, when I got banned, the vote to start random was lower than 75% so a significant ammount of people didn't want to play random. And a significant ammount were displeased when they saw Locomotion. We even started a vote to stop tournament, which failed. That is no excuse for leaving a game, but it wasn't a solo act of rage.
As for the map pool. I think most people would agree that these should be there
Cave
Asteroids
Lostcity
Core (though I hate it personally)
Grotto
Heights
Woods
Fallout
Justice
Focus
Mayhem (maybe)
Then there's Middleground and Locomotion which usually make really long games, but they have always been played as official, so I don't know.
Scrapyard should not have been there before the community had at least tried them before in other servers, in my opinion. I think Scrapyard is actually a really nice map, but I had never played it before when I saw it in ladder.
Yeah that mappool looks great to me with the addition of middleground and maybe even loco. Scrapyard is way too open in my opinion it needs some layout changes.
CCN
06-06-2010, 02:03 PM
I like the new maps, and I hate loco.
ScrapYard could use some tweaking but it's a fun map.
ScrapYard could use some tweaking but it's a fun map.
Kuja900
06-06-2010, 03:14 PM
Are you serious? I didn't lie. Ever. You extend my ban simply because I have just had a recent ban? Do you remember what my ban was for? For playing high. Where is the rules does it say I can't do that? Then you reduce flights simply because you guys like him? You should get your hand out from your pants.
York you brighten my days I just want you to know that.
York you brighten my days I just want you to know that.
Pieface
06-06-2010, 03:15 PM
Justice is bad; I said why in that earlier thread. Bright background + uneven layout + bottom path focus = unplayable imo. I'm gonna reserve judgement on loco because the games can either be really fun or really bad depending on how they're played.
As for the others, I too really enjoy scrapyard. I think it would help to maybe put in like one more mall obstacle on the top or something to prevent everyone from constantly going bomber and spamming up there. I also really enjoy bowsercastle, but I can see why others don't like it. It makes an extremely good map for just about any type of randa, and as a randa player that makes me happy. :) But if one team has a semi-decent TA on their team then the others don't have a chance.
Not quite sure what to say about nuclear, since it's pretty much just a lob-friendly version of core with better graphics. Haven't played it competitively so I won't make any comments.
Edit: I really like the gameplay of underpark, and haven't experienced that much choppiness. But if others are seeing it then it should probably be looked into.
As for the others, I too really enjoy scrapyard. I think it would help to maybe put in like one more mall obstacle on the top or something to prevent everyone from constantly going bomber and spamming up there. I also really enjoy bowsercastle, but I can see why others don't like it. It makes an extremely good map for just about any type of randa, and as a randa player that makes me happy. :) But if one team has a semi-decent TA on their team then the others don't have a chance.
Not quite sure what to say about nuclear, since it's pretty much just a lob-friendly version of core with better graphics. Haven't played it competitively so I won't make any comments.
Edit: I really like the gameplay of underpark, and haven't experienced that much choppiness. But if others are seeing it then it should probably be looked into.
Kuja900
06-06-2010, 03:33 PM
Justice is bad; I said why in that earlier thread. Bright background + uneven layout + bottom path focus = unplayable imo. I'm gonna reserve judgement on loco because the games can either be really fun or really bad depending on how they're played.
As for the others, I too really enjoy scrapyard. I think it would help to maybe put in like one more mall obstacle on the top or something to prevent everyone from constantly going bomber and spamming up there. I also really enjoy bowsercastle, but I can see why others don't like it. It makes an extremely good map for just about any type of randa, and as a randa player that makes me happy. :) But if one team has a semi-decent TA on their team then the others don't have a chance.
Not quite sure what to say about nuclear, since it's pretty much just a lob-friendly version of core with better graphics. Haven't played it competitively so I won't make any comments.
Justice becomes more playable with /parafalse to turn off the background, but yes it is **** but comparatively speaking its at least usable. People don't like being unable to defend their hard earned ladder rank because of choppyness rendering them half useless.
As for the others, I too really enjoy scrapyard. I think it would help to maybe put in like one more mall obstacle on the top or something to prevent everyone from constantly going bomber and spamming up there. I also really enjoy bowsercastle, but I can see why others don't like it. It makes an extremely good map for just about any type of randa, and as a randa player that makes me happy. :) But if one team has a semi-decent TA on their team then the others don't have a chance.
Not quite sure what to say about nuclear, since it's pretty much just a lob-friendly version of core with better graphics. Haven't played it competitively so I won't make any comments.
Justice becomes more playable with /parafalse to turn off the background, but yes it is **** but comparatively speaking its at least usable. People don't like being unable to defend their hard earned ladder rank because of choppyness rendering them half useless.
Firestrike
06-06-2010, 03:51 PM
BALL_planepark is getting ridiculous.
http://altitudegame.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=489&d=1264364126
I have kept a running count - because I disbelieved my first impression - over the past four days every time we play this map in Ladder.
Well, over 70% of goals are scored by running the ball along the bottom passage and scoring with either a dunk or a layup.
There is a confluence of reasons for this.
1. Spawns directly block the top passage, making that route impractical. Compare vs spawns in Snow or Labyrinth.
2. The bottom tunnel is almost completely shielded from all defending planes that aren't coming head-on the other way. Compare vs similar passages in Mayhem or Darkwar.
3. The tunnel is too narrow and too easily mined or walled, and the floor is completely smooth making dribbling easy. Compare vs similar passages in Lost City.
It's too easy to pass the ball down through the wide opening near the center of the map, then run it up and avoid confrontation with the defenders until you emerge right near the goal.
Conversely it's hard to clear the ball FROM the tunnel so once it gets down there, it stays.
I have seen games where the other team is full of clutch passers and great teamwork and we won because we threw the ball down there, walled it up, and then just kept pushing until someone dunked.
Maps should reward good teamwork. Snow for example is a good map because of all the curves - the ball just won't go anywhere unless you pass it.
I know people will say LARN 2 PLAY PALIN but Planepark is not good. It's pretty and took a lot of effort to make and we want to encourage map creation but bad maps should not be on Ladder.
I challenge anyone who disagrees with my analysis to keep a count of 10+ games and see what percent of goals come from which angle of attack.
Funnelpark is fine. It's not a lot of fun but it doesn't have this broken problem.
I totally agree. The way the map is made, the walls force the action down. This makes it too easy to shoot goals. Anyway, great job of analyzing the map!
http://altitudegame.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=489&d=1264364126
I have kept a running count - because I disbelieved my first impression - over the past four days every time we play this map in Ladder.
Well, over 70% of goals are scored by running the ball along the bottom passage and scoring with either a dunk or a layup.
There is a confluence of reasons for this.
1. Spawns directly block the top passage, making that route impractical. Compare vs spawns in Snow or Labyrinth.
2. The bottom tunnel is almost completely shielded from all defending planes that aren't coming head-on the other way. Compare vs similar passages in Mayhem or Darkwar.
3. The tunnel is too narrow and too easily mined or walled, and the floor is completely smooth making dribbling easy. Compare vs similar passages in Lost City.
It's too easy to pass the ball down through the wide opening near the center of the map, then run it up and avoid confrontation with the defenders until you emerge right near the goal.
Conversely it's hard to clear the ball FROM the tunnel so once it gets down there, it stays.
I have seen games where the other team is full of clutch passers and great teamwork and we won because we threw the ball down there, walled it up, and then just kept pushing until someone dunked.
Maps should reward good teamwork. Snow for example is a good map because of all the curves - the ball just won't go anywhere unless you pass it.
I know people will say LARN 2 PLAY PALIN but Planepark is not good. It's pretty and took a lot of effort to make and we want to encourage map creation but bad maps should not be on Ladder.
I challenge anyone who disagrees with my analysis to keep a count of 10+ games and see what percent of goals come from which angle of attack.
Funnelpark is fine. It's not a lot of fun but it doesn't have this broken problem.
I totally agree. The way the map is made, the walls force the action down. This makes it too easy to shoot goals. Anyway, great job of analyzing the map!
alexjalen
06-09-2010, 02:07 AM
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3530/altitude201006082149594.png
I dont get this.
I dont get this.
Boko
06-09-2010, 02:36 AM
Because they didn't like bowserscastle, and that vote didn't even pass! ;)
SkyTiger
06-09-2010, 06:00 AM
Coding wise it is actually somewhat difficult (i.e. I can't think of a way it'll actually work without bugs) to set up ladder servers in multiple regions. I'll think more about this (probably not until after the reset) but you shouldn't count on it, sorry =\. Plus, australia/asia is the lowest traffic region out of northamerica/europe/asia-australia I believe, so it's on a lower priority than a european server.
Gee thats too bad.
I wonder if you would agree for someone in australia to use your code and set up an australia/asia ladder.
Gee thats too bad.
I wonder if you would agree for someone in australia to use your code and set up an australia/asia ladder.
Boko
06-09-2010, 04:47 PM
Sorry for budging in here, but how the hell could placing a server in different regions be difficult coding wise?
nobodyhome
06-09-2010, 06:27 PM
Pretty simple--the usual synchronization problems arising from multiple servers trying to read/write to the same database.
Boko
06-09-2010, 06:52 PM
You're already writing to the same database from different servers right? Even though they're all running on the same server, I doubt they are single threaded.
nobodyhome
06-09-2010, 07:23 PM
Hmm not exactly. It goes multiple servers -> single log parser -> single database. This is because all four ladder servers write to the same log (which is all dealt with on lam's end) so I only have one log parser that writes to a database.
On the other hand it just occurred to me that the only database objects I have deal with matches (which are played on a single server) and with players (and players can't be in multiple servers at once) so I might not have synchronization problems after all. I'll have to think about this more later.
On the other hand it just occurred to me that the only database objects I have deal with matches (which are played on a single server) and with players (and players can't be in multiple servers at once) so I might not have synchronization problems after all. I'll have to think about this more later.
York
06-09-2010, 08:19 PM
Hmm not exactly. It goes multiple servers -> single log parser -> single database. This is because all four ladder servers write to the same log (which is all dealt with on lam's end) so I only have one log parser that writes to a database.
On the other hand it just occurred to me that the only database objects I have deal with matches (which are played on a single server) and with players (and players can't be in multiple servers at once) so I might not have synchronization problems after all. I'll have to think about this more later.
LOL. You make my mind hurt when you all talk about writing this kind of stuff.
But I am thinking about a Cash Prize for when the ladder is reset.
What do you guys think is a good amount for me to donate?
On the other hand it just occurred to me that the only database objects I have deal with matches (which are played on a single server) and with players (and players can't be in multiple servers at once) so I might not have synchronization problems after all. I'll have to think about this more later.
LOL. You make my mind hurt when you all talk about writing this kind of stuff.
But I am thinking about a Cash Prize for when the ladder is reset.
What do you guys think is a good amount for me to donate?
Evan20000
06-09-2010, 10:36 PM
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/3774/altitude201006091428561.png
Flight left in midgame for no good reason. So did a certain other player, but I don't have screenies to back that up.
Flight left in midgame for no good reason. So did a certain other player, but I don't have screenies to back that up.
Kuja900
06-09-2010, 10:40 PM
Uhm I have a suggestion, could the randomizer be changed to not play the same map twice in a row.
Evan20000
06-09-2010, 10:41 PM
Yeah, Loco 3 games in a row was NOT fun.
Kuja900
06-09-2010, 10:54 PM
I rather enjoy Loco actually
Evan20000
06-09-2010, 11:03 PM
Each game took 30-45 minutes. You wouldn't have liked it.
Kuja900
06-10-2010, 04:13 AM
Each game took 30-45 minutes. You wouldn't have liked it.
Wouldn't of happened if I was playing.
Wouldn't of happened if I was playing.
Evan20000
06-10-2010, 05:10 AM
That's besides the point. It was still mind numbingly boring.
Sunaku
06-18-2010, 03:54 PM
This is a plea.
Oh Lord (Nobo), can you do something about funnelpark, please ? At least removing it from the random would make the world a little bit of a better place. It would be the kick-start of a chain of good deeds that may very well result in me not ending as a serial killer, the creation of tiny dinosaurs pets and base jumping from the moon.
Do the right thing. Please.
PS : ball_cube is nice, how about putting it on ?
Oh Lord (Nobo), can you do something about funnelpark, please ? At least removing it from the random would make the world a little bit of a better place. It would be the kick-start of a chain of good deeds that may very well result in me not ending as a serial killer, the creation of tiny dinosaurs pets and base jumping from the moon.
Do the right thing. Please.
PS : ball_cube is nice, how about putting it on ?
nesnl
06-18-2010, 06:06 PM
This is a plea.
Oh Lord (Nobo), can you do something about funnelpark, please ? At least removing it from the random would make the world a little bit of a better place. It would be the kick-start of a chain of good deeds that may very well result in me not ending as a serial killer, the creation of tiny dinosaurs pets and base jumping from the moon.
Do the right thing. Please.
PS : ball_cube is nice, how about putting it on ?
funnelpark is like the 2nd best ball map! why would anyone want to remove it other than being selfish and assuming that just because they dislike something that everyone should be punished for that opinion?
Oh Lord (Nobo), can you do something about funnelpark, please ? At least removing it from the random would make the world a little bit of a better place. It would be the kick-start of a chain of good deeds that may very well result in me not ending as a serial killer, the creation of tiny dinosaurs pets and base jumping from the moon.
Do the right thing. Please.
PS : ball_cube is nice, how about putting it on ?
funnelpark is like the 2nd best ball map! why would anyone want to remove it other than being selfish and assuming that just because they dislike something that everyone should be punished for that opinion?
Clapon
06-18-2010, 07:04 PM
funnelpark is like the 2nd best ball map! why would anyone want to remove it other than being selfish and assuming that just because they dislike something that everyone should be punished for that opinion?
AGREED! im a huge fan of funnlepark as it makes for great ball play. top 5 ball map easy!
AGREED! im a huge fan of funnlepark as it makes for great ball play. top 5 ball map easy!
Sunaku
06-18-2010, 10:01 PM
funnelpark is like the 2nd best ball map! why would anyone want to remove it other than being selfish and assuming that just because they dislike something that everyone should be punished for that opinion?Maybe because of these little things called arguments against it?
Being selfish or liking it is irrelevant here. You could also call me selfish for wanting football removed and call it the first best ball map if you want. It wouldn't change the fact as far as design goes, funnelpark is an awful map totally negating ball gameplay. It's a crashfest with long narrow tunnels leading to solo riding with close to no passing involved.
Being selfish or liking it is irrelevant here. You could also call me selfish for wanting football removed and call it the first best ball map if you want. It wouldn't change the fact as far as design goes, funnelpark is an awful map totally negating ball gameplay. It's a crashfest with long narrow tunnels leading to solo riding with close to no passing involved.
nesnl
06-18-2010, 10:54 PM
Maybe because of these little things called arguments against it?
Being selfish or liking it is irrelevant here. You could also call me selfish for wanting football removed and call it the first best ball map if you want. It wouldn't change the fact as far as design goes, funnelpark is an awful map totally negating ball gameplay. It's a crashfest with long narrow tunnels leading to solo riding with close to no passing involved.
As you can see from the post above yours there are some people that love this map. I don't think that it is "an awful map totally negating ball gameplay." I think that it is a map that requires more technical flying and better team play. And I am not saying that your opinions are invalid, I am saying that just because one person or even a few people don't like a map doesn't mean that it should be removed. I guarantee that if you asked around that you would find groups of people who hate each and every map out there. So just keep that in mind. There are always going to be maps that you like/hate with others who like/hate the total opposite maps.
Being selfish or liking it is irrelevant here. You could also call me selfish for wanting football removed and call it the first best ball map if you want. It wouldn't change the fact as far as design goes, funnelpark is an awful map totally negating ball gameplay. It's a crashfest with long narrow tunnels leading to solo riding with close to no passing involved.
As you can see from the post above yours there are some people that love this map. I don't think that it is "an awful map totally negating ball gameplay." I think that it is a map that requires more technical flying and better team play. And I am not saying that your opinions are invalid, I am saying that just because one person or even a few people don't like a map doesn't mean that it should be removed. I guarantee that if you asked around that you would find groups of people who hate each and every map out there. So just keep that in mind. There are always going to be maps that you like/hate with others who like/hate the total opposite maps.
andy
06-19-2010, 07:22 AM
i didnt wanna make another thread just for this: since we have 2 ladder servers why is one no max ping and the other 400 max ping?
400 max ping is nearly the same as no max ping (nobody pings more than 400). I think we should have a server with 200 max ping and one with no max ping.
400 max ping is nearly the same as no max ping (nobody pings more than 400). I think we should have a server with 200 max ping and one with no max ping.
tgleaf
06-19-2010, 07:28 AM
Part of the reason I ran the BALL maps survey (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3589) was because there's always someone who will love or hate a certain map. It's helpful to see some perspective on what (most of) the community feels about each map. Funnelpark was low, but certainly not the lowest, as you can see in that link.
D4rt
06-19-2010, 11:27 AM
Funnel is the only map where using 3 whales is a viable option in competitive games, meaning that:
- The nice variety of planes this game has loses it's meaning when one of them is in such a dominating part. This is what we call imbalance.
- Funnel can become Hell for light planes.
Also, the narrow tunnels are something to avoid for anything that's not a sea mammal. But because of the BALL's nature to shift towards the bottom, this is often impossible. The map is designed so, that the flow of the game mode forces you in to a very difficult position. Unless you are a whale of course.
- The nice variety of planes this game has loses it's meaning when one of them is in such a dominating part. This is what we call imbalance.
- Funnel can become Hell for light planes.
Also, the narrow tunnels are something to avoid for anything that's not a sea mammal. But because of the BALL's nature to shift towards the bottom, this is often impossible. The map is designed so, that the flow of the game mode forces you in to a very difficult position. Unless you are a whale of course.
Kuja900
06-19-2010, 12:10 PM
Funnel is the only map where using 3 whales is a viable option in competitive games
I'd argue that 3 whales is viable on asteroids as well because of how short the distance is from the spawn to the goal.
I'd argue that 3 whales is viable on asteroids as well because of how short the distance is from the spawn to the goal.
wolf'j'max
06-19-2010, 12:41 PM
funnelpark is like the 2nd best ball map! why would anyone want to remove it other than being selfish and assuming that just because they dislike something that everyone should be punished for that opinion?
i love funnel park since the explodet can be used in an attack very well, there are some shots which can be made by an explodet very easily.
edit:
btw:
Flight left in midgame for no good reason. So did a certain other player, but I don't have screenies to back that up.
flight is very sad about his lag. if anyone ever complains about it he can get very angry since he can't do anything about it. i learned about it in the very same situation.
i love funnel park since the explodet can be used in an attack very well, there are some shots which can be made by an explodet very easily.
edit:
btw:
Flight left in midgame for no good reason. So did a certain other player, but I don't have screenies to back that up.
flight is very sad about his lag. if anyone ever complains about it he can get very angry since he can't do anything about it. i learned about it in the very same situation.
nesnl
06-19-2010, 01:09 PM
Part of the reason I ran the BALL maps survey (http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3589) was because there's always someone who will love or hate a certain map. It's helpful to see some perspective on what (most of) the community feels about each map. Funnelpark was low, but certainly not the lowest, as you can see in that link.
The fact that Snow ended up being the top ranked map is funny to me because I consider that map to be one of the worst ball maps out there. The design is so simple that it ends up being a spam fest in that one long tunnel where each team tries to push the ball forward through spawn waves and spamming bombers/loopys. However, I am starting to think that this type of strategy is what people like in ball.
The fact that Snow ended up being the top ranked map is funny to me because I consider that map to be one of the worst ball maps out there. The design is so simple that it ends up being a spam fest in that one long tunnel where each team tries to push the ball forward through spawn waves and spamming bombers/loopys. However, I am starting to think that this type of strategy is what people like in ball.
Sunaku
06-19-2010, 03:19 PM
I guarantee that if you asked around that you would find groups of people who hate each and every map out there. So just keep that in mind. There are always going to be maps that you like/hate with others who like/hate the total opposite maps.
This is kind of what I was saying in my previous post by the fact that simply "liking it" is a limited perspective. There is no consensus about any map. Which is exactly why I brought up football. Some people like it and may even advocate it for ladder.
But let's take a concrete and less extreme example : mayhem. I like mayhem but people complained that the map was too big and the games took too long, and it was true. So it was removed from ladder and it made sense. The same way that removing funnelpark would now make sense because it makes for the least interesting planeball games you can witness and play in the ladder and possibly the whole game.
I think you have enough knowledge about the game that I don't have to remind you that "technical flying" only goes so far when EMP and thermo are involved, to my deepest regret. As for team play, I honestly don't see it, one plane can take a tunnel and you'll never see it again.
The same way too opened maps are not very interesting, this map is too closed on itself which makes it both not interesting and a chore to play.
PS : Snow is not that great but calling its bottom part a long tunnel, I wonder how you would call funnelpark's actual ones :p
PS2 : Base jumping from the moon. Think about it.
This is kind of what I was saying in my previous post by the fact that simply "liking it" is a limited perspective. There is no consensus about any map. Which is exactly why I brought up football. Some people like it and may even advocate it for ladder.
But let's take a concrete and less extreme example : mayhem. I like mayhem but people complained that the map was too big and the games took too long, and it was true. So it was removed from ladder and it made sense. The same way that removing funnelpark would now make sense because it makes for the least interesting planeball games you can witness and play in the ladder and possibly the whole game.
I think you have enough knowledge about the game that I don't have to remind you that "technical flying" only goes so far when EMP and thermo are involved, to my deepest regret. As for team play, I honestly don't see it, one plane can take a tunnel and you'll never see it again.
The same way too opened maps are not very interesting, this map is too closed on itself which makes it both not interesting and a chore to play.
PS : Snow is not that great but calling its bottom part a long tunnel, I wonder how you would call funnelpark's actual ones :p
PS2 : Base jumping from the moon. Think about it.
Ctrl Alt Destroy
06-20-2010, 01:24 AM
HOW AWESOME IS THIS? THANKS A LOT GU-
oh wait
lolz. But, still, YOU GUYS ROCK!!!!
oh wait
lolz. But, still, YOU GUYS ROCK!!!!
Sarah Palin
06-20-2010, 02:19 AM
Funnelpark is fine. It's Planepark that destroys souls.
blln4lyf
06-20-2010, 09:36 PM
Funnelpark is fine. It's Planepark that destroys souls.
Except most people think quite the opposite.
Except most people think quite the opposite.
nesnl
06-20-2010, 10:18 PM
Planepark best map imo.
wolf'j'max
06-20-2010, 10:21 PM
1. Funnelpark
2. Planepark
3. Cave.
/discuss
2. Planepark
3. Cave.
/discuss
Sarah Palin
06-20-2010, 10:23 PM
Planepark best map imo.
lieeeeeeeees
lieeeeeeeees
wolf'j'max
06-20-2010, 10:25 PM
lieeeeeeeees
Will you stop whining about planepark in maimer's direction? Just so you know he did half the work of the map so it is obvious that he likes the map.
Will you stop whining about planepark in maimer's direction? Just so you know he did half the work of the map so it is obvious that he likes the map.
elxir
06-20-2010, 11:01 PM
Planepark best map imo.
fact. count it.
fact. count it.
Sunaku
06-21-2010, 12:39 AM
1. Funnelpark
2. Planepark
3. Cave.
/discuss
/vomit
Except Planepark, cool map.
2. Planepark
3. Cave.
/discuss
/vomit
Except Planepark, cool map.
nostrich
06-22-2010, 12:32 PM
Hello! I haven't read the entire thread, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I played my first two ladder ball games (rather badly!) last night and it was great fun. Just wanted to show some continued appreciation for something like this existing, since most of the last few pages seems to be fighting about bans and maps. (I really like Planepark, for what it's worth; all great maps have elements like the bottom tunnel that can be exploited, just learn to defend them.)
I'm not as interested in knowing my rating (I already know I suck, comparatively) as I am in fun, competitive ball games; the public servers -- with the exception of {arr}'s servers, where I've spent most of my time up until now -- seem to be a terrible mess of new players completely devoid of any strategy. It's nice to see some banter and discussion in-game too -- the Altitude community in general seems to be fairly well-mannered and friendly (which is a relief, considering the quality of life in most multiplayer games), but it can seem very quiet during games.
I don't get on Altitude too often -- I bought it when it was launched on Steam for Mac and have only logged 62 hours thus far (currently around level 30, Ace 2) -- but I expect to spend a bunch of time in the ladder servers. So thanks!
If you have any way of accepting donations, I recommend publicizing it. This kind of server is a _huge_ benefit to the community; I know a lot of people will refuse to play multiplayer games unless it's competitive, and it just has the general effect of improving the standard of gameplay overall. That's worth supporting any way possible, I think, and I'm guessing a lot of people would be willing to. (I'm assuming here that monetary compensation would be helpful in motivating you to provide continued support.)
Incidentally, have you considered packaging this up into something you can release as a general use utility for people running Altitude servers? For the reasons above, I think that would be really well received.
I'm not as interested in knowing my rating (I already know I suck, comparatively) as I am in fun, competitive ball games; the public servers -- with the exception of {arr}'s servers, where I've spent most of my time up until now -- seem to be a terrible mess of new players completely devoid of any strategy. It's nice to see some banter and discussion in-game too -- the Altitude community in general seems to be fairly well-mannered and friendly (which is a relief, considering the quality of life in most multiplayer games), but it can seem very quiet during games.
I don't get on Altitude too often -- I bought it when it was launched on Steam for Mac and have only logged 62 hours thus far (currently around level 30, Ace 2) -- but I expect to spend a bunch of time in the ladder servers. So thanks!
If you have any way of accepting donations, I recommend publicizing it. This kind of server is a _huge_ benefit to the community; I know a lot of people will refuse to play multiplayer games unless it's competitive, and it just has the general effect of improving the standard of gameplay overall. That's worth supporting any way possible, I think, and I'm guessing a lot of people would be willing to. (I'm assuming here that monetary compensation would be helpful in motivating you to provide continued support.)
Incidentally, have you considered packaging this up into something you can release as a general use utility for people running Altitude servers? For the reasons above, I think that would be really well received.
King!
06-25-2010, 05:11 AM
Haha, King! is #1 in tbd right now because of name changing shenanigans with ingbo. Pretty crazy that he is 425 pts higher than the #2, stop hacking yo!
Warnerrr
07-26-2010, 06:07 AM
So I hopped on to finally play my first game of Plane Ball on the ladder server...and WOW. I was greeted with rudeness, mockery, and jerks in general.
Is the point of playing on the ladderball server to be ridiculed your first time out? Are the "leet" people who play all the time supposed to act like a pack of jackals and mock me, and tell me that I am "f***ing terrible" or "OMFG PLEASE F***ING SPECTATE", and continue to do so, until I get fed up and tell them to "F*** off" and then I get banned? While playing against people named C**shot and similar names, I find it hard to believe that they can just act in any way they choose, but should someone tell them to "f*** off and just play the game" they get banned for 24 hours. What a wonderful server you folks have there. Enjoy your evening.
Is the point of playing on the ladderball server to be ridiculed your first time out? Are the "leet" people who play all the time supposed to act like a pack of jackals and mock me, and tell me that I am "f***ing terrible" or "OMFG PLEASE F***ING SPECTATE", and continue to do so, until I get fed up and tell them to "F*** off" and then I get banned? While playing against people named C**shot and similar names, I find it hard to believe that they can just act in any way they choose, but should someone tell them to "f*** off and just play the game" they get banned for 24 hours. What a wonderful server you folks have there. Enjoy your evening.
Wok3N^
07-26-2010, 06:11 AM
Cool story bro
CCN
07-26-2010, 06:14 AM
Players get frustrated by bad players. Do you play in ahrd wall ball servers and win or play well/(kills or movement or both) consistently? Generally people who come from the hard wall servers and are doing fairly wellt here get treated better then what you're descriving.
I'd reccomend playing in dojo and getting comfortable there (and improve to that level) if you don't already then trying ladder. This should stop most of the wingeing and annoyance and harsh words. Of course any skill level is welcome at ladder (I think) but this should imit the player base acting like a pack of jackals.
I'd reccomend playing in dojo and getting comfortable there (and improve to that level) if you don't already then trying ladder. This should stop most of the wingeing and annoyance and harsh words. Of course any skill level is welcome at ladder (I think) but this should imit the player base acting like a pack of jackals.
Warnerrr
07-26-2010, 06:19 AM
Players get frustrated by bad players.
So you're saying it's excusable to behave in such a fashion?
So you're saying it's excusable to behave in such a fashion?
CCN
07-26-2010, 06:24 AM
So you're saying it's excusable to behave in such a fashion?
im saying bad players arn't real people and thus whatever you do to bad players doesn't count.
im saying bad players arn't real people and thus whatever you do to bad players doesn't count.
Warnerrr
07-26-2010, 06:31 AM
im saying bad players arn't real people and thus whatever you do to bad players doesn't count.
I suppose you do have a point.
I suppose you do have a point.
Goose
07-26-2010, 06:33 AM
I have talked with Warnerrr about this incident and the situation has been resolved.
Kuja900
07-26-2010, 06:34 AM
So you're saying it's excusable to behave in such a fashion?
Ladder is where the "elite" in altitude hang out, meaning if you don't belong you'l feel like that very quickly. You will never be out right kicked out but you wont be welcome unless your at a certain medium skill level, as people do not like to see their ratings suffer because of sub par people on their teams. I am not trying to be rude but try and improve your play a bit in like official 3/dojo servers then come back and see if people are more welcoming.
Ladder is where the "elite" in altitude hang out, meaning if you don't belong you'l feel like that very quickly. You will never be out right kicked out but you wont be welcome unless your at a certain medium skill level, as people do not like to see their ratings suffer because of sub par people on their teams. I am not trying to be rude but try and improve your play a bit in like official 3/dojo servers then come back and see if people are more welcoming.
tgleaf
07-26-2010, 06:34 AM
Thanks, Goose. I just PM'ed him.
elxir
07-26-2010, 07:42 AM
So you're saying it's excusable to behave in such a fashion?
I was just speccing so IDK wtf was going on but as I can tell the other team was down a man and your team asked you to spec cuz you were like 15-35 with dumb bombs. You told them to "**** off."
That's all I know, there may be more to it.
I was just speccing so IDK wtf was going on but as I can tell the other team was down a man and your team asked you to spec cuz you were like 15-35 with dumb bombs. You told them to "**** off."
That's all I know, there may be more to it.
Warnerrr
07-26-2010, 08:12 AM
Before that I was being ridiculed, but we worked it out, all is well now.
banana
07-26-2010, 08:59 PM
If people started off with a lower rating of 800 or so then perhaps people would welcome the newer players to ladder.
At the moment most people starting with a 1500 rating usually go down in the rankings for a bit which makes people not too happy with unbalanced teams and rant at the new player.
At the moment most people starting with a 1500 rating usually go down in the rankings for a bit which makes people not too happy with unbalanced teams and rant at the new player.
nobodyhome
07-27-2010, 12:58 AM
If people started off with a lower rating of 800 or so then perhaps people would welcome the newer players to ladder.
At the moment most people starting with a 1500 rating usually go down in the rankings for a bit which makes people not too happy with unbalanced teams and rant at the new player.
This is actually exactly it. The main reason people dislike newer players is that they begin with a ladder rating that is higher than their skill level, thus the team that has the new player is, as a whole, less skilled than their ratings combined as compared to a team that has players with stable ratings.
However, assigning newer players to have a lower rating is not the solution--if this was done when ladder first started off, then the whole ladder would simply shift downwards in rating (thus, 800 will be still an "overrated" rating relative to the other veteran players).
The key to the problem is that the rating system is zero-sum, and thus, new players will always be assigned the "mean" rating of all players, whereas they are most definitely not at the mean skill level. This is a known problem and will be addressed when the next season begins.
At the moment most people starting with a 1500 rating usually go down in the rankings for a bit which makes people not too happy with unbalanced teams and rant at the new player.
This is actually exactly it. The main reason people dislike newer players is that they begin with a ladder rating that is higher than their skill level, thus the team that has the new player is, as a whole, less skilled than their ratings combined as compared to a team that has players with stable ratings.
However, assigning newer players to have a lower rating is not the solution--if this was done when ladder first started off, then the whole ladder would simply shift downwards in rating (thus, 800 will be still an "overrated" rating relative to the other veteran players).
The key to the problem is that the rating system is zero-sum, and thus, new players will always be assigned the "mean" rating of all players, whereas they are most definitely not at the mean skill level. This is a known problem and will be addressed when the next season begins.
Evan20000
07-27-2010, 01:17 AM
This is a known problem and will be addressed when the next season begins.
Oh you troll, we know that's not happening.
On topic, I agree and am glad something is being done about this.
Oh you troll, we know that's not happening.
On topic, I agree and am glad something is being done about this.
hurripilot
07-28-2010, 07:20 AM
not sure where I should post this, but ladder appears to be broken :/.
nobodyhome
07-28-2010, 09:04 AM
Fixed. This is a fine way to report the problem to us--in the future please also leave a note as to how it's broken (ladder doesn't say anything after doing a custom command, whether or not a game wasn't recorded, ladder refuses to start a game even if there's 10 players, etc).
Evan20000
09-23-2010, 02:15 AM
Reason: Long game.
http://www.altitudeladder.net/match.php?id=6523&mode=0
Ban Maimer imo.
http://www.altitudeladder.net/match.php?id=6523&mode=0
Ban Maimer imo.
MajorPayne257
09-23-2010, 02:24 AM
Reason: Long game.
http://www.altitudeladder.net/match.php?id=6523&mode=0
Ban Maimer imo.
Holy...that must've sucked.
http://www.altitudeladder.net/match.php?id=6523&mode=0
Ban Maimer imo.
Holy...that must've sucked.
Evan20000
09-23-2010, 02:28 AM
**** that game. All that was nice about it was the immense amount of kills. (I ended the game just shy of 150)
MoxyCrimefighter
11-08-2010, 03:21 AM
"What happens if someone leaves in the middle of a game?
The game will go on, since by being present at the tournament, the leaver had agreed to play a game. The match will be counted even if at the end of the game it is a 4v5. If everyone agrees, a stopTournament can be called and another game can be started with new teams, but the leaver's opposing team is not obligated to do so."
Ok. Cloud told me to spec, so I did. As a spectator, I play no part in the game, so I decided to leave because I had more important things to take care of atm. If this is bannable, then I'm missing something here.
Therefore, the rules must be made clear on this page.
The game will go on, since by being present at the tournament, the leaver had agreed to play a game. The match will be counted even if at the end of the game it is a 4v5. If everyone agrees, a stopTournament can be called and another game can be started with new teams, but the leaver's opposing team is not obligated to do so."
Ok. Cloud told me to spec, so I did. As a spectator, I play no part in the game, so I decided to leave because I had more important things to take care of atm. If this is bannable, then I'm missing something here.
Therefore, the rules must be made clear on this page.
mikesol
11-08-2010, 03:31 AM
"What happens if someone leaves in the middle of a game?
The game will go on, since by being present at the tournament, the leaver had agreed to play a game. The match will be counted even if at the end of the game it is a 4v5. If everyone agrees, a stopTournament can be called and another game can be started with new teams, but the leaver's opposing team is not obligated to do so."
Ok. Cloud told me to spec, so I did. As a spectator, I play no part in the game, so I decided to leave because I had more important things to take care of atm. If this is bannable, then I'm missing something here.
Therefore, the rules must be made clear on this page.
So here is what is wrong with this:
* There are two teams - team A and team B. Let's say you're on team B.
* Team A has someone disconnect - leaving them with 4. You are asked to spectate - which you do
* You leave the game
* Team A's person comes back. You are now gone. Now they can't play anymore and either it's a 4v4 or a 5v4.
Do you see why this is a problem? Just because someone from the other team disconnects does not give you the right to just leave. What if someone from your team dc's? What if they come back? By playing in the game to begin with you agree that you will be there the whole time and punishment will be awarded if you leave.
Hope that clears it up.
The game will go on, since by being present at the tournament, the leaver had agreed to play a game. The match will be counted even if at the end of the game it is a 4v5. If everyone agrees, a stopTournament can be called and another game can be started with new teams, but the leaver's opposing team is not obligated to do so."
Ok. Cloud told me to spec, so I did. As a spectator, I play no part in the game, so I decided to leave because I had more important things to take care of atm. If this is bannable, then I'm missing something here.
Therefore, the rules must be made clear on this page.
So here is what is wrong with this:
* There are two teams - team A and team B. Let's say you're on team B.
* Team A has someone disconnect - leaving them with 4. You are asked to spectate - which you do
* You leave the game
* Team A's person comes back. You are now gone. Now they can't play anymore and either it's a 4v4 or a 5v4.
Do you see why this is a problem? Just because someone from the other team disconnects does not give you the right to just leave. What if someone from your team dc's? What if they come back? By playing in the game to begin with you agree that you will be there the whole time and punishment will be awarded if you leave.
Hope that clears it up.
ryebone
11-08-2010, 03:36 AM
I decided to leave because I had more important things to take care of atm.
This alone warrants a ban, regardless of what is happening on the other team.
This alone warrants a ban, regardless of what is happening on the other team.
MoxyCrimefighter
11-08-2010, 04:53 PM
So here is what is wrong with this:
* There are two teams - team A and team B. Let's say you're on team B.
* Team A has someone disconnect - leaving them with 4. You are asked to spectate - which you do
* You leave the game
* Team A's person comes back. You are now gone. Now they can't play anymore and either it's a 4v4 or a 5v4.
Do you see why this is a problem? Just because someone from the other team disconnects does not give you the right to just leave. What if someone from your team dc's? What if they come back? By playing in the game to begin with you agree that you will be there the whole time and punishment will be awarded if you leave.
Hope that clears it up.
Well, I thought Cloud wanted someone to replace me. But ok, I f***ed up. This won't happen again.
* There are two teams - team A and team B. Let's say you're on team B.
* Team A has someone disconnect - leaving them with 4. You are asked to spectate - which you do
* You leave the game
* Team A's person comes back. You are now gone. Now they can't play anymore and either it's a 4v4 or a 5v4.
Do you see why this is a problem? Just because someone from the other team disconnects does not give you the right to just leave. What if someone from your team dc's? What if they come back? By playing in the game to begin with you agree that you will be there the whole time and punishment will be awarded if you leave.
Hope that clears it up.
Well, I thought Cloud wanted someone to replace me. But ok, I f***ed up. This won't happen again.
Cloud
11-08-2010, 05:11 PM
I wanted u to spec so game could be 4v4, not to leave ^^
Ribilla
11-14-2010, 01:36 AM
On a lighter note, I played ladder for the first time yesterday and appart from the initial "Who is Ribilla?" I found the whole thing enjoyable, intense and informative, even though I'm not the best player.
I haven't had this game long and I haven't been playing too much, but ladder is certainly the way to get better.
I haven't had this game long and I haven't been playing too much, but ladder is certainly the way to get better.
Sunaku
11-14-2010, 02:51 AM
appart from the initial "Who is Ribilla?" I found the whole thing enjoyable, intense and informative
Two quick questions : Where can I play this joyful fantasy ladder place you talk about, and who is Ribilla?
Welcome to hell ;)
Two quick questions : Where can I play this joyful fantasy ladder place you talk about, and who is Ribilla?
Welcome to hell ;)
[Y]
11-14-2010, 04:42 AM
I found the whole thing enjoyable, intense and informative.
Wait, ladder without rage and insults thrown at new players?
HERESY, I SAY
Wait, ladder without rage and insults thrown at new players?
HERESY, I SAY
York
11-14-2010, 05:56 PM
;88154']Wait, ladder without rage and insults thrown at new players?
HERESY, I SAY
its cause he is good :cool:
nice of you to join forums ribs. try to dl mumble also
HERESY, I SAY
its cause he is good :cool:
nice of you to join forums ribs. try to dl mumble also
lemon
11-14-2010, 07:22 PM
I'll be looking to start playing on ladder sometime soon. Bring on the rage and insults :).
elxir
11-15-2010, 03:34 AM
I'll be looking to start playing on ladder sometime soon. Bring on the rage and insults :).
if you understand to pass before you die in ball, and when to drop/not drop in TBD, you can't really fail too badly
if you understand to pass before you die in ball, and when to drop/not drop in TBD, you can't really fail too badly
Tekn0
12-12-2010, 12:24 PM
I'm going to try out this Ladder thingy, once I get back to Germany (in a couple of months :( ) and I have my pings back to <= 30s again :D
Right now my pings are about 160ish and yesterday I had a bad experience with someone complaining I warpkilled them because I was lagging and that "laggy randaz shouldn't be allowed". But at that time I was clearly not. I've known that person for a while and he/she always complains about something or the other (especially when they are losing) so no big deal. This time he/she had the excuse of ping.
I voluntarily left the game even though I was the MVP the previous game and was doing pretty well on this one, as I felt anything I do will be attributed to my ping (the "it was like this on my screen argument") by that player.
Happy pew-pewing all!! Looking forward to meeting some of you on Ladder! :)
Right now my pings are about 160ish and yesterday I had a bad experience with someone complaining I warpkilled them because I was lagging and that "laggy randaz shouldn't be allowed". But at that time I was clearly not. I've known that person for a while and he/she always complains about something or the other (especially when they are losing) so no big deal. This time he/she had the excuse of ping.
I voluntarily left the game even though I was the MVP the previous game and was doing pretty well on this one, as I felt anything I do will be attributed to my ping (the "it was like this on my screen argument") by that player.
Happy pew-pewing all!! Looking forward to meeting some of you on Ladder! :)
Stormich
12-12-2010, 12:37 PM
I'm going to try out this Ladder thingy, once I get back to Germany (in a couple of months :( ) and I have my pings back to <= 30s again :D
Right now my pings are about 160ish and yesterday I had a bad experience with someone complaining I warpkilled them because I was lagging and that "laggy randaz shouldn't be allowed". But at that time I was clearly not. I've known that person for a while and he/she always complains about something or the other (especially when they are losing) so no big deal. This time he/she had the excuse of ping.
I voluntarily left the game even though I was the MVP the previous game and was doing pretty well on this one, as I felt anything I do will be attributed to my ping (the "it was like this on my screen argument") by that player.
Happy pew-pewing all!! Looking forward to meeting some of you on Ladder! :)
Ping is based off of server-peer location and since the ladder servers are located in the US being in Germany will result with a ping of around 150ish (also 150-160 really isn't gamebreaking). Most of us Euros that enjoy ladder are used to it...
Right now my pings are about 160ish and yesterday I had a bad experience with someone complaining I warpkilled them because I was lagging and that "laggy randaz shouldn't be allowed". But at that time I was clearly not. I've known that person for a while and he/she always complains about something or the other (especially when they are losing) so no big deal. This time he/she had the excuse of ping.
I voluntarily left the game even though I was the MVP the previous game and was doing pretty well on this one, as I felt anything I do will be attributed to my ping (the "it was like this on my screen argument") by that player.
Happy pew-pewing all!! Looking forward to meeting some of you on Ladder! :)
Ping is based off of server-peer location and since the ladder servers are located in the US being in Germany will result with a ping of around 150ish (also 150-160 really isn't gamebreaking). Most of us Euros that enjoy ladder are used to it...
Tekn0
12-12-2010, 12:39 PM
Ping is based off of server-peer location and since the ladder servers are located in the US being in Germany will result with a ping of around 150ish (also 150-160 really isn't gamebreaking). Most of us Euros that enjoy ladder are used to it...
I assumed you had EU ladder servers :/ No EU servers in Ladder? :( Or plans to get any?
I assumed you had EU ladder servers :/ No EU servers in Ladder? :( Or plans to get any?
Stormich
12-12-2010, 12:46 PM
There are plans but servers are expensive, unless you play TA 150 ping wont make a huge difference
Tekn0
12-12-2010, 12:54 PM
There are plans but servers are expensive, unless you play TA 150 ping wont make a huge difference
Yes just wondering about the server locations (thanks). And yes, 150 ping is fine, it's only when it spikes it's a problem (as it does now at times). But my connection in Germany is pretty awesome so it shouldn't be an issue at all.
Yes just wondering about the server locations (thanks). And yes, 150 ping is fine, it's only when it spikes it's a problem (as it does now at times). But my connection in Germany is pretty awesome so it shouldn't be an issue at all.
strato
01-03-2011, 02:48 AM
Just a suggestion to make the ladder rankings a little more accurate overall:
Create different ranking lists based on the number of games played until a certain number of games have been played, for example 50 games, or whatever number of games is needed in order to make the rankings accurate.
example:
list 1: ranking list for all players who've played between 1-19 games
list 2: ranking list for all players who've played between 20-49 games
list 3: ranking list for all players who've played above 50 games
Create different ranking lists based on the number of games played until a certain number of games have been played, for example 50 games, or whatever number of games is needed in order to make the rankings accurate.
example:
list 1: ranking list for all players who've played between 1-19 games
list 2: ranking list for all players who've played between 20-49 games
list 3: ranking list for all players who've played above 50 games
vintage
02-03-2011, 02:48 PM
Nobo: The links in the first post still point to altitudeladder.net. Might be confusing for someone new.
Kuja900
03-07-2011, 11:13 PM
Nobo I have to say these are the longest 2 months of my life release season 2 already
Premier Stalin
03-07-2011, 11:28 PM
its mostly done promise ;) theyre just waiting for eso or someone to do statistics I think
Princess Squirtle
06-24-2011, 08:08 PM
Could it be possible to add some kind of summary in the player matchlist that would show the win % of every maps? could help to know which map you need to work on to improve. :o
naethy
06-24-2011, 08:50 PM
+1 to that idea, squirtle. Been wondering that myself, actually.
Ajuk999
06-24-2011, 09:00 PM
Yeah +1 to that idea as well.
sunshineduck
06-24-2011, 10:18 PM
the average points gained do a pretty good job of telling you what maps you need work on tbh
Carlos98
06-24-2011, 10:38 PM
the average points gained do a pretty good job of telling you what maps you need work on tbh
but to even see that, you have to find your most recent match on the particular map.
I wouldn't mind seeing tabular data on player pages of map win % and avg pts gained per map
but to even see that, you have to find your most recent match on the particular map.
I wouldn't mind seeing tabular data on player pages of map win % and avg pts gained per map
sunshineduck
06-24-2011, 10:47 PM
that really is not that much effort if you're interested in that sort of information. i think the player page is cluttered as is :\
Princess Squirtle
06-25-2011, 12:31 AM
I was thinking for it to be on the top of the player's matchlist page, not in the player's main page. It would help to read that list and give it more interest, imo. Also, it would give a general overview about how you're doing, which would be clearer than listing the average points manually or sorting the list by maps.
bummeln
06-25-2011, 05:23 AM
I'd think the best way would be a link similar to how #ofmatches | Matchlist is set up.
So best map would have bestmap | Map Stats (or just an arrow indicating more info available) and lead to a list of maps sorted by win%
Same thing could be done for best/worst teammates, a feature asked for earlier iirc.
Out of curiosity how hard would it be to integrate the stat recording and record keeping for league and other servers? I think it would be really interesting to see these stats for league matches and maybe just in general.
So best map would have bestmap | Map Stats (or just an arrow indicating more info available) and lead to a list of maps sorted by win%
Same thing could be done for best/worst teammates, a feature asked for earlier iirc.
Out of curiosity how hard would it be to integrate the stat recording and record keeping for league and other servers? I think it would be really interesting to see these stats for league matches and maybe just in general.
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