Stormich
01-11-2010, 09:41 AM
Since people don't bitch enough about trickster I'm gonna add some bitchiness :)
Anyways trickster is OP the way it is, no matter the skill ceiling. I don't have a lot of problems with the main shot of trickster. It's a sniper shot, long range, huge damage. What I dislike about it is the warp shot and the bounce. The warp shot deals 200 damage and kills a miranda and loopy in 1 shot. I think there should be some cooldown between shooting and warping to make it a bit more fair cause trickster as it is now prevents the use of laser in game. Laser loses 9 out of 10 times vs trickster. The other thing i dislike is the bounce. While i like being able to shoot around corners I think that 1 shooting things due to luck is really annoying. I'm suggesting you keep the bounce but that it doesn't deal damage to the same plane once you shot it once so if it bounces it will bounce onto another plane thus keeping the weapon mostly intact but reduce the luck factor in the kills.
Anyways trickster is OP the way it is, no matter the skill ceiling. I don't have a lot of problems with the main shot of trickster. It's a sniper shot, long range, huge damage. What I dislike about it is the warp shot and the bounce. The warp shot deals 200 damage and kills a miranda and loopy in 1 shot. I think there should be some cooldown between shooting and warping to make it a bit more fair cause trickster as it is now prevents the use of laser in game. Laser loses 9 out of 10 times vs trickster. The other thing i dislike is the bounce. While i like being able to shoot around corners I think that 1 shooting things due to luck is really annoying. I'm suggesting you keep the bounce but that it doesn't deal damage to the same plane once you shot it once so if it bounces it will bounce onto another plane thus keeping the weapon mostly intact but reduce the luck factor in the kills.
andy
01-11-2010, 10:04 AM
+1. And i would add, make laser shots bounce if not twice, at least once to make it more fair.
jeppew
01-11-2010, 10:11 AM
Laser shots do not need bounce imho.
Give Laser the EMP can't boost effect on the target it is hitting :P
Not really though that would be stupid, but please do something about the whole Trickster > Laser situation, it hurts me on a deep and personal level to be one-shot in close quarters :/
Give Laser the EMP can't boost effect on the target it is hitting :P
Not really though that would be stupid, but please do something about the whole Trickster > Laser situation, it hurts me on a deep and personal level to be one-shot in close quarters :/
Stormich
01-11-2010, 10:13 AM
I've just though of something, make the delay between warp and shot as long as it takes laser to do the same ammount of damage so when dueling laser and trickster would be about the same.
Varonth
01-11-2010, 03:26 PM
The Trickster shot can also hit you, bounce of a wall and hit you again.
Results in a onehit on almost every plane.
The hitbox seems to be greater then the actual energyball you see.
And the final thing:
It seems like the charge up is bugged on every miranda.
If i just charge it for a split second, it seems to deal the maximum damage, like a full charged shot.
I can 2 hit bots with 2 0.1s charged shots.
To improve the laser, a bit more range, and less lasertime for the same damage would be nice.
Results in a onehit on almost every plane.
The hitbox seems to be greater then the actual energyball you see.
And the final thing:
It seems like the charge up is bugged on every miranda.
If i just charge it for a split second, it seems to deal the maximum damage, like a full charged shot.
I can 2 hit bots with 2 0.1s charged shots.
To improve the laser, a bit more range, and less lasertime for the same damage would be nice.
nesnl
01-11-2010, 04:08 PM
I agree that the Bouncy Shot seems to be a bit out of whack. One of the other problems I have with it is that it is the fastest moving projectile in the game except for maybe the biplane primary. However, for a shot that hits as hard as it does it is basically impossible to dodge as no plane moves fast enough to move out of the way with any consistency. Maybe consider slowing the actual speed of the projectile down? Also, other solutions might be to reduce the damage inflicted based on distance so that the farther the bouncy shot travels the less damage it does. Also, don't know if this is already true, but if a shot bounces off an object it should lose a percentage of its strength.
I also agree that laser should be slightly buffed as well. But these discussions have been going on for quite some time and include nerfing remote mine as well. Most people have been waiting many months at this point for a balance patch. Hopefully we will see one in the coming weeks.
I also agree that laser should be slightly buffed as well. But these discussions have been going on for quite some time and include nerfing remote mine as well. Most people have been waiting many months at this point for a balance patch. Hopefully we will see one in the coming weeks.
DiogenesDog
01-11-2010, 04:38 PM
Radical suggestion: Have the trickster shot disappear when it hits a plane. Then it can only bounce off walls and stuff. Plane bounce shots are luck shots pretty much 100% of the time, so the only thing this would hurt is that it'd remove the occasional random funny chaotic kill (which is only a good thing in casual games).
And yeah, I could see giving laser a slight buff.
And yeah, I could see giving laser a slight buff.
Jacques Strap
01-11-2010, 10:44 PM
The trickster should have some of its luck removed. I'm tired of mirandas missing me and having their shots bounce off of 4 walls to kill me. Also, trickster and double fire loopy players, there are other planes in the game! I'm tired of playing games where 12 of the 14 players are double fire loopies and trickster mirandas.
Varonth
01-11-2010, 10:56 PM
The trickster should have some of its luck removed. I'm tired of mirandas missing me and having their shots bounce off of 4 walls to kill me. Also, trickster and double fire loopy players, there are other planes in the game! I'm tired of playing games where 12 of the 14 players are double fire loopies and trickster mirandas.
Go to a hardwall server.
The amount of loopies and explodet are just swapped there.
Go to a hardwall server.
The amount of loopies and explodet are just swapped there.
Vania
01-12-2010, 12:01 AM
Lets see. Trickster charged shot:
Is the biggest projectile in the game, has a huge colision area.
Is the fastest moving projectile too.
Bounces off walls.
Can hit multiple targets (or one twice yay!).
You know how easy it is to be killed with just one charged shot? You just have to fly close to a wall, it happens all the time.
But of course all miranda players will tell you that trickster is not OP, it's laser that needs a buff...
Is the biggest projectile in the game, has a huge colision area.
Is the fastest moving projectile too.
Bounces off walls.
Can hit multiple targets (or one twice yay!).
You know how easy it is to be killed with just one charged shot? You just have to fly close to a wall, it happens all the time.
But of course all miranda players will tell you that trickster is not OP, it's laser that needs a buff...
Carbon
01-12-2010, 12:41 AM
other solutions might be to reduce the damage inflicted based on distance so that the farther the bouncy shot travels the less damage it does. Also, don't know if this is already true, but if a shot bounces off an object it should lose a percentage of its strength.
yeah, the bouncy shot at nearly the end of its travel after bouncing 2-3 times does far too much damage, expecially since well over 90% of the multi-bounce shots that hit me are complete luck. I like the fact that the shot bounces, but it shouldn't do anywhere near full damage after bouncing off 2 different walls and hitting someone off screen.
yeah, the bouncy shot at nearly the end of its travel after bouncing 2-3 times does far too much damage, expecially since well over 90% of the multi-bounce shots that hit me are complete luck. I like the fact that the shot bounces, but it shouldn't do anywhere near full damage after bouncing off 2 different walls and hitting someone off screen.
gemigemi
01-12-2010, 04:55 AM
Radical suggestion: Have the trickster shot disappear when it hits a plane. Then it can only bounce off walls and stuff. Plane bounce shots are luck shots pretty much 100% of the time, so the only thing this would hurt is that it'd remove the occasional random funny chaotic kill (which is only a good thing in casual games).
I've been playing the Miranda quite a lot compared to other planes and I agree with this idea. Most bounce shots from planes tend to be pure luck and you can get weird double or triple kills with no intention at all. The only places where you can really intend to do multiple hits are tight tunnels or similar where you can be very sure that the enemy planes next to each other will be hit. The shot is extremely damaging and one hit alone is quite a good punch, let alone getting two hits on the same plane or different planes.
Bouncing off walls is still great, as that can be used for shooting around corners and other stuff like that, and suits the weapon very well.
yeah, the bouncy shot at nearly the end of its travel after bouncing 2-3 times does far too much damage, expecially since well over 90% of the multi-bounce shots that hit me are complete luck. I like the fact that the shot bounces, but it shouldn't do anywhere near full damage after bouncing off 2 different walls and hitting someone off screen.
Reducing damage after each wall hit seems like reasonable balancing to me. This way you can still snipe players around corners, but you wont be able to deal massive damage. This also balances random luck hits.
Reducing damage depending on the travel time, as someone above suggested, doesn't sound like a good idea to me. This would make the Miranda a close combat ship, changing its role quite a bit I think.
I've been playing the Miranda quite a lot compared to other planes and I agree with this idea. Most bounce shots from planes tend to be pure luck and you can get weird double or triple kills with no intention at all. The only places where you can really intend to do multiple hits are tight tunnels or similar where you can be very sure that the enemy planes next to each other will be hit. The shot is extremely damaging and one hit alone is quite a good punch, let alone getting two hits on the same plane or different planes.
Bouncing off walls is still great, as that can be used for shooting around corners and other stuff like that, and suits the weapon very well.
yeah, the bouncy shot at nearly the end of its travel after bouncing 2-3 times does far too much damage, expecially since well over 90% of the multi-bounce shots that hit me are complete luck. I like the fact that the shot bounces, but it shouldn't do anywhere near full damage after bouncing off 2 different walls and hitting someone off screen.
Reducing damage after each wall hit seems like reasonable balancing to me. This way you can still snipe players around corners, but you wont be able to deal massive damage. This also balances random luck hits.
Reducing damage depending on the travel time, as someone above suggested, doesn't sound like a good idea to me. This would make the Miranda a close combat ship, changing its role quite a bit I think.
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