pig_bomb
01-11-2010, 07:23 PM
Justice
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9295/cmcapture4.jpg
V. 1.6 June 19, 2010
Update: There..
All comments and criticism's welcome.
Download: Justice (http://www.mediafire.com/?uzz22d2zjmm)
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9295/cmcapture4.jpg
V. 1.6 June 19, 2010
Update: There..
All comments and criticism's welcome.
Download: Justice (http://www.mediafire.com/?uzz22d2zjmm)
Pieface
01-11-2010, 08:31 PM
Another beautiful map by the great pig! At first glance, my only main suggestion would be to think about making a more exciting background, as the one now seems a bit bland compared to the awesomeness of the rest of the map. Are the pipes on either side traversable? I would hope not if it's a TBD map. Also, the picture you posted doesn't show where the bases are... but I guess I'll wait until I've played it myself to pass further judgement.
eth
01-11-2010, 08:45 PM
Man I wish I had your gfx skills.. pretty jawdropping stuff right there. Anyway, I have no criticisms for gameplay(yet) since it seemed to play really well when we tried it out. Also like the background as it's refreshing with a clean background compared to all the other maps out there. Looking forward to playing this more :]
btw Pie the pipes aren't traversable, and bases are on those two rocks beside the pipe I think.
btw Pie the pipes aren't traversable, and bases are on those two rocks beside the pipe I think.
Kuja900
01-11-2010, 08:50 PM
Is this map neutral bomb?
Ajuk999
01-11-2010, 08:50 PM
I have played this map and love it! Good Job Pig!
tyr
01-11-2010, 09:14 PM
Yup as eth said, the map is really nice.
It's quite small and when we tried it 3v3 it was already pretty good. I think it would be absolutely perfect 5v5.
No, it's not a neutral bomb.
It's quite small and when we tried it 3v3 it was already pretty good. I think it would be absolutely perfect 5v5.
No, it's not a neutral bomb.
classicallad
01-11-2010, 09:31 PM
not adding anything new here but, great job pig it play excellently.
tyr
01-11-2010, 11:12 PM
Remove top path. :(
Pieface
01-11-2010, 11:19 PM
I just played with it and here are my initial comments:
The background seems way to blown out/bright, and hurts my eyes when I look at it. I think a darker background that is easier to see would help the map a lot. On my computer, the background seems even brighter than the one you put up in the picture.
The top bomb path (where you wrap from the left over your base to directly over the other person's base) ruins the rest of the map. There is no incentive for exploring your wondrous creation at the moment if people can instantly appear over the other base.
Not nearly enough turrets, hope those will be added in later versions.
It's very easy to spawn camp on the other side, but maybe this is mostly about the lack of turrets and the top path. With some good turret placement this could probably be eliminated.
It's unclear which pipes you can enter and which you can't. The bottom pipes look like you should be able to wrap to either side, and the only way to debunk this is by trying and dying.
Seems very easy to lob the bomb at great distances, maybe some refining of the placement of objects would help this. It seems easier to bomb the right base than the left simply by lobbing.
The map seems a lot larger than other official maps, but maybe that's just me. There also seem to be patches of wide open space that could be filled in with other objects.
Those were the first things that came to mind. I love the art (besides the apparent lack of a visible background), and would love to see the gameplay element become as good as the visual component!
The background seems way to blown out/bright, and hurts my eyes when I look at it. I think a darker background that is easier to see would help the map a lot. On my computer, the background seems even brighter than the one you put up in the picture.
The top bomb path (where you wrap from the left over your base to directly over the other person's base) ruins the rest of the map. There is no incentive for exploring your wondrous creation at the moment if people can instantly appear over the other base.
Not nearly enough turrets, hope those will be added in later versions.
It's very easy to spawn camp on the other side, but maybe this is mostly about the lack of turrets and the top path. With some good turret placement this could probably be eliminated.
It's unclear which pipes you can enter and which you can't. The bottom pipes look like you should be able to wrap to either side, and the only way to debunk this is by trying and dying.
Seems very easy to lob the bomb at great distances, maybe some refining of the placement of objects would help this. It seems easier to bomb the right base than the left simply by lobbing.
The map seems a lot larger than other official maps, but maybe that's just me. There also seem to be patches of wide open space that could be filled in with other objects.
Those were the first things that came to mind. I love the art (besides the apparent lack of a visible background), and would love to see the gameplay element become as good as the visual component!
mikesol
01-11-2010, 11:20 PM
Pros:
1) The details, as always, are beautifully done and make for a type of map not seen typically.
2) Has a unique design in the middle as well as the base.
3) The bases have a spot beneath them for low bombing which is cool and not something typically found.
4) Very obvious what one can collide with and what one can't (aside from 2 things described below).
Cons:
1) The top path is really bad in it's current state. You can pop in right behind enemy spawn and just fly down to base without any significant turret resistance. It's way too easy to do that.
2) Some pipes you can go in (they don't lead to anywhere) and some you can't. Yet I don't notice any distinction between the two.
3) It is very easy to spawn camp enemy team since you can get behind them very easily and cause lots of problems.
4) The background kind of gives me a head-ache. It makes the distinctive features stand out but is very bright / unpleasant on the eyes.
5) The bases are different - making one side unfair in my eyes. The left base has a narrower gap in between the top object and the middle object than the left one. At first glance they almost appear to be connected so it's not obvious it's a path. The right side has a narrower bottom making that a path that one is unlikely to take.
Edit: It's also very easy to lob the bombs from far away which I see being annoying in a competitive game with limited number of people.
1) The details, as always, are beautifully done and make for a type of map not seen typically.
2) Has a unique design in the middle as well as the base.
3) The bases have a spot beneath them for low bombing which is cool and not something typically found.
4) Very obvious what one can collide with and what one can't (aside from 2 things described below).
Cons:
1) The top path is really bad in it's current state. You can pop in right behind enemy spawn and just fly down to base without any significant turret resistance. It's way too easy to do that.
2) Some pipes you can go in (they don't lead to anywhere) and some you can't. Yet I don't notice any distinction between the two.
3) It is very easy to spawn camp enemy team since you can get behind them very easily and cause lots of problems.
4) The background kind of gives me a head-ache. It makes the distinctive features stand out but is very bright / unpleasant on the eyes.
5) The bases are different - making one side unfair in my eyes. The left base has a narrower gap in between the top object and the middle object than the left one. At first glance they almost appear to be connected so it's not obvious it's a path. The right side has a narrower bottom making that a path that one is unlikely to take.
Edit: It's also very easy to lob the bombs from far away which I see being annoying in a competitive game with limited number of people.
Element
01-12-2010, 09:49 AM
Played it on the ALP. Looks great and i enjoyed playing it. Great work pig!
Luke
01-12-2010, 12:13 PM
5) The bases are different - making one side unfair in my eyes. The left base has a narrower gap in between the top object and the middle object than the left one. At first glance they almost appear to be connected so it's not obvious it's a path.
As mush as i love the fact that the map is not symmetrical, which adds a lot of "feeling", i suggest you to slightly edit the top part of the object in front of the left base, maybe just raising it to create a gap similar in width to the other one on the right.
And i agree with mikesol saying that's not obvious that it's a path.
Otherwise i find it quite a good job! =)
EDIT: forgot a thing.. why it's called "justice"?
As mush as i love the fact that the map is not symmetrical, which adds a lot of "feeling", i suggest you to slightly edit the top part of the object in front of the left base, maybe just raising it to create a gap similar in width to the other one on the right.
And i agree with mikesol saying that's not obvious that it's a path.
Otherwise i find it quite a good job! =)
EDIT: forgot a thing.. why it's called "justice"?
Massi
01-12-2010, 02:22 PM
EDIT: forgot a thing.. why it's called "justice"?
To me because it looks like a prison with the iron bar windows and spotlights.
To me because it looks like a prison with the iron bar windows and spotlights.
Sean
01-13-2010, 04:00 AM
very nice map!
I agree with whoever said it in the first place, the background is a little bit too bright. Still very nice. Better than I could've made for sure.
I agree with whoever said it in the first place, the background is a little bit too bright. Still very nice. Better than I could've made for sure.
pig_bomb
01-13-2010, 05:12 AM
update:
*removed unintentional top path
*changed background a bit
*removed unintentional top path
*changed background a bit
innerlyte
01-13-2010, 05:32 AM
Nice map! Not a whole lot new to add. I did notice that the back turret behind the base is pretty much useless. Its range (in both degrees and firing distance) is very limited and probably wouldn't do much to stop attackers. Also, it is possible to pass through that small gap underneath the turret to the other side. Not sure if that's intentional or not.
STACK
01-13-2010, 04:33 PM
Looks good, would like to see a darker background with more detail and depth. Needs balancing as most new maps do. Turret angles completely out of whack and the positioning needs balancing. Lots of collision hull bugs: top path still traversable after fix, can pass through the area between pipe and turret quite easily (even with no damage going left), can pass through pipe sometimes, and you can squeeze between objects and ceiling in a couple spots. I like how the map is not symmetrical but it may be a little too lopsided for competitive play.
DryBone
01-15-2010, 02:13 PM
Great Graphics as usual :D but i personally think its a bit small, or is it just my imagination???
pig_bomb
01-19-2010, 04:46 AM
Update: Fixed all passable walls.
pig_bomb
04-15-2010, 07:01 PM
Update: Made the layout more balanced.
nobodyhome
04-16-2010, 01:16 AM
Is the picture in the OP the updated picture of the map? What did you change to make it more balanced?
Also, are you going to do anything about the background? A lot of people complain about how blindingly white it is and refuse to play it.
Also, are you going to do anything about the background? A lot of people complain about how blindingly white it is and refuse to play it.
pig_bomb
04-17-2010, 04:20 PM
The picture is updated. I changed the round object to mirror the size and placement of the object on the other side. This should create almost identical lobs from over the top and make the path through the middle similar as well.
pig_bomb
06-18-2010, 04:35 PM
update789.
Kuja900
06-18-2010, 05:10 PM
Much better
classicallad
06-18-2010, 05:39 PM
brilliant, i always liked this map. Can we rally around to make this official? And Nobo i'm not sure but do some of the maps on ladder appear more than others because Justice barely never came around =[
wolf'j'max
06-18-2010, 05:57 PM
awesome machinarium graphics again! <3 machinarium.
it also looks way better ^_^
it also looks way better ^_^
A Nipple
06-18-2010, 10:06 PM
so sweet!! with the new turret and the symmetrical island it should be so sweeet!
nip
nip
Sarah Palin
06-19-2010, 01:00 AM
Great update, this map is gonna rocket up the most played list now.
nobodyhome
06-19-2010, 01:30 AM
Pigbomb's maps: Forcing altitude players to like the color green since 2009.
Good update. This will go up on the ladder sometime tonight.
Good update. This will go up on the ladder sometime tonight.
Evan20000
06-19-2010, 01:37 AM
I like it. /generic comment.
Seriously, good job, piggy. :3
Seriously, good job, piggy. :3
nobodyhome
06-19-2010, 10:14 AM
Lol. I just put this up on the ladder. The background stutters like underpark's (it actually causes palin's altitude to lag out near instantly), there's a powerup on the bottom left that's collidable, and most hilariously, there are no bombs. Needless to say I reverted the ladder version back to the previous one. Might want to look into fixing it =x.
asparagus
06-19-2010, 12:20 PM
gd map
but i keep teleporting everywere and its not lag cos others keep on tele aswell it seems to be near the colidable object at the bottom i was there and then radomly teled to opponents base:confused:
but i keep teleporting everywere and its not lag cos others keep on tele aswell it seems to be near the colidable object at the bottom i was there and then radomly teled to opponents base:confused:
wolf'j'max
06-19-2010, 12:37 PM
Lol. I just put this up on the ladder. The background stutters like underpark's (it actually causes palin's altitude to lag out near instantly), there's a powerup on the bottom left that's collidable, and most hilariously, there are no bombs. Needless to say I reverted the ladder version back to the previous one. Might want to look into fixing it =x.
yes what nobo said:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2zsp9qf.jpg
i hope you can see it:
i circled the powrup that is collidable and i also circled the place where the bombs were.
yes what nobo said:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2zsp9qf.jpg
i hope you can see it:
i circled the powrup that is collidable and i also circled the place where the bombs were.
pig_bomb
06-19-2010, 01:37 PM
NO IM NOT FIXING IT! FUUUUU
:D llooll serisouly though i will try to work this out asap
:D llooll serisouly though i will try to work this out asap
Mandrad
06-19-2010, 02:33 PM
Love the sketchty style of ur art. The new background is also amazing.
pig_bomb
06-19-2010, 03:06 PM
Ok. Fixed the stupid shiit i forgot, also i think i've resolved the lagging issue, think it was related to the random invisible collidable object but not sure. New download is up
Thank you everybody for your kind words. <3
Thank you everybody for your kind words. <3
andy
06-19-2010, 03:09 PM
where can we play it?
lamster
06-19-2010, 03:21 PM
I took a brief look at the old version -- the huge cpu lag was definitely generated by a stack of 500 floating line objects (I assume you removed these in the latest version) -- were those generated from import large PNG, or something you did manually? If from import, could you send me the raw PNG file that causes the bizarre stack of collidable objects to form so I can fix it?
pig_bomb
06-19-2010, 04:35 PM
where can we play it?
nowhere currently, ladder later hopefully
lam: Honestly i have no clue where they came from. It must have been something from an import since thats all i used but i don't remember when they appeared.
justice pro tip: Most annoying little bits protruding from objects aren't collidable, other things that aren't collidable include some goo, a gun, a pipe...
nowhere currently, ladder later hopefully
lam: Honestly i have no clue where they came from. It must have been something from an import since thats all i used but i don't remember when they appeared.
justice pro tip: Most annoying little bits protruding from objects aren't collidable, other things that aren't collidable include some goo, a gun, a pipe...
Evan20000
06-19-2010, 10:34 PM
I took a brief look at the old version -- the huge cpu lag was definitely generated by a stack of 500 floating line objects (I assume you removed these in the latest version) -- were those generated from import large PNG, or something you did manually? If from import, could you send me the raw PNG file that causes the bizarre stack of collidable objects to form so I can fix it?
I wonder if underpark has the same problem.....
Anyway, great job piggy.
I wonder if underpark has the same problem.....
Anyway, great job piggy.
Sarah Palin
06-20-2010, 02:15 AM
Lol. I just put this up on the ladder. The background stutters like underpark's (it actually causes palin's altitude to lag out near instantly), there's a powerup on the bottom left that's collidable, and most hilariously, there are no bombs. Needless to say I reverted the ladder version back to the previous one. Might want to look into fixing it =x.
This version of the map literally crashed my Alti. It stuttered so hard I was seeing my typing appear 10 seconds after writing.
This version of the map literally crashed my Alti. It stuttered so hard I was seeing my typing appear 10 seconds after writing.
mlopes
06-21-2010, 10:23 AM
Not much of a fan of the new background...
pig_bomb
12-29-2010, 03:32 PM
This map is really fun imo, what do you think?
Mandrad
12-29-2010, 06:57 PM
I think it is the most handsome alti map - congratz for that!
Unfortunately one can only play it in ladder (i think)... never realy understood why cant this map be official?...
I cant say i love how it plays because i dont like the bottom bomb route - and unfortunately i cant understand exactly why! Maybe if the rock in front of the base was shorter in height (distributing the space top and bottom) and putting the same rock some pixels away from base would make the diference. It would be easy in what concerns graphics fixing wich is good when one has such an elaborate work ;)
Anyway, imo, it has everything to become "The Map"!
Unfortunately one can only play it in ladder (i think)... never realy understood why cant this map be official?...
I cant say i love how it plays because i dont like the bottom bomb route - and unfortunately i cant understand exactly why! Maybe if the rock in front of the base was shorter in height (distributing the space top and bottom) and putting the same rock some pixels away from base would make the diference. It would be easy in what concerns graphics fixing wich is good when one has such an elaborate work ;)
Anyway, imo, it has everything to become "The Map"!
sunshineduck
12-29-2010, 07:09 PM
I hate this map with the burning passion of a thousand fiery suns.
sunshineduck
12-29-2010, 07:40 PM
allow me to elaborate:
just as a quick background, I main two planes (laser and remote) which is the core of the reason I hate this map so much.
as a laser when not bomb running, this map is extremely difficult for me to get going on. the open areas right by the bases allow me to hunt down explos, but if it's extremely hard to get a good flank going, especially because of the proximity to the enemy spawn - I can get a kill, but will likely die because of it. camping the low area near their base once the turrets are down allows me to ratio it up, but it doesn't help my team very much while they get pinned in our base 5v4. the low middle area of the map will get murdered by bomberspam, and the top middle of the map, while maneuverable, is basically one and a half choke points that can get massacred by a well placed explo missile or some bomberspam. as a runner, the miranda is inferior to a flexy biplane on this map in every conceivable way. bomb runs on this map don't play out like anything on any other map - the vast majority of bomb hits are balls-out sprints to the enemy base leading to a lob through the small tunnel after defending/giving up an enemy bomb hit. once the low turrets are gone, the strategy shifts to waiting for a shield and going low - once you get past that first rock the base is sitting on, it's a free hit every time. the biplane is much more suited to these roles considering it has much more health and straight-line speed with the bomb.
as an explo, this map is immensely frustrating and boring. the majority of the game is spend circling an inch away from your base trying to A) stop the high lob, B) try and prevent the enemy from getting under that first rock the base is sitting on, and C) trying to avoid crashing while circling while the bomb runner decides which way he wants to go. the only reason I play explo is because outside of the bomb runner there's not a plane in the game that can dictate the flow of game like a good remote can. as a remote on other team bomb maps, you typically lead the team's push towards the enemy base, with a powerup or without, and the pushing power of a strong explo is unmatched even by the best bombers. this is [i]fun[i]. however, on justice I tend to spend approximately 80% of the game circling above my base, which is definitely the opposite. I never get to lead the quasi-push as I can't get to powerups without leaving the base undefended, so it's a matter of letting whoever grabbed the shield/wall lead the rush to the low path while the enemy is still dead and hoping they get the hit.
so this is why I hate this map so much: I can pretty much either A) subjugate my team to my biplane running (lol), B) play explo and be bored out of my ****ing mind the entire game, or C) play bomber/loopy and be extremely awful while having slightly more fun than option B. I typically end up going with option B because it's the most useful to the team, but I've already stated why I hate that option so much.
<-- trolled by justice
;_;
just as a quick background, I main two planes (laser and remote) which is the core of the reason I hate this map so much.
as a laser when not bomb running, this map is extremely difficult for me to get going on. the open areas right by the bases allow me to hunt down explos, but if it's extremely hard to get a good flank going, especially because of the proximity to the enemy spawn - I can get a kill, but will likely die because of it. camping the low area near their base once the turrets are down allows me to ratio it up, but it doesn't help my team very much while they get pinned in our base 5v4. the low middle area of the map will get murdered by bomberspam, and the top middle of the map, while maneuverable, is basically one and a half choke points that can get massacred by a well placed explo missile or some bomberspam. as a runner, the miranda is inferior to a flexy biplane on this map in every conceivable way. bomb runs on this map don't play out like anything on any other map - the vast majority of bomb hits are balls-out sprints to the enemy base leading to a lob through the small tunnel after defending/giving up an enemy bomb hit. once the low turrets are gone, the strategy shifts to waiting for a shield and going low - once you get past that first rock the base is sitting on, it's a free hit every time. the biplane is much more suited to these roles considering it has much more health and straight-line speed with the bomb.
as an explo, this map is immensely frustrating and boring. the majority of the game is spend circling an inch away from your base trying to A) stop the high lob, B) try and prevent the enemy from getting under that first rock the base is sitting on, and C) trying to avoid crashing while circling while the bomb runner decides which way he wants to go. the only reason I play explo is because outside of the bomb runner there's not a plane in the game that can dictate the flow of game like a good remote can. as a remote on other team bomb maps, you typically lead the team's push towards the enemy base, with a powerup or without, and the pushing power of a strong explo is unmatched even by the best bombers. this is [i]fun[i]. however, on justice I tend to spend approximately 80% of the game circling above my base, which is definitely the opposite. I never get to lead the quasi-push as I can't get to powerups without leaving the base undefended, so it's a matter of letting whoever grabbed the shield/wall lead the rush to the low path while the enemy is still dead and hoping they get the hit.
so this is why I hate this map so much: I can pretty much either A) subjugate my team to my biplane running (lol), B) play explo and be bored out of my ****ing mind the entire game, or C) play bomber/loopy and be extremely awful while having slightly more fun than option B. I typically end up going with option B because it's the most useful to the team, but I've already stated why I hate that option so much.
<-- trolled by justice
;_;
hurripilot
12-29-2010, 08:15 PM
Justice is my best running map, in fact, it's like the easiest non-randa running map, so deal with it. It's nice to have maps where the ghey planes take a back seat to aircraft with chest hair.
elxir
12-29-2010, 08:30 PM
justice might be my favorite map
pig_bomb
12-30-2010, 12:39 AM
so SSD, basically what you're saying is Justice doesn't allow you to play the excact same way you play every other game of altitude on every other map..... and that's what is boring...... ... .
sunshineduck
12-30-2010, 03:36 AM
so SSD, basically what you're saying is Justice doesn't allow you to play the excact same way you play every other game of altitude on every other map..... and that's what is boring...... ... .
I didn't say it was a bad map (it isn't), I just elaborated as to why I hate it and wish you never made it. ^^
I didn't say it was a bad map (it isn't), I just elaborated as to why I hate it and wish you never made it. ^^
pig_bomb
12-30-2010, 04:43 AM
hehe yea justice is a troll imo :D
Stormich
12-30-2010, 06:44 AM
One of the most fun and dynamic maps out there. I never really got all the hate for this map.
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