evilarsenal
12-22-2009, 09:10 PM
Single Plane Tournament
Here's what we'll do, there will be 5 seperate tournaments
Miranda/Biplane/Explodet/Loopy/Bomber
It'll be a duel tournament... a bracket seperate for each plane...
Registration till 6th of January... everyone can join, for each plane (one person can sign up for 5 tournaments!)
It will happen through all of january, matches on saturday and sunday... however people can
Interested? Post thoughts, should i run it? Single Elimination, first to 15 deaths loses (no kamikaze heroes)
The finals of each plane will be bo3, and the final 5 planes will compete in FFA for the title BEST OF THE BEST :OOO
i don't expect every best player to sign up but its just for fun...
Thoughts?
Here's what we'll do, there will be 5 seperate tournaments
Miranda/Biplane/Explodet/Loopy/Bomber
It'll be a duel tournament... a bracket seperate for each plane...
Registration till 6th of January... everyone can join, for each plane (one person can sign up for 5 tournaments!)
It will happen through all of january, matches on saturday and sunday... however people can
Interested? Post thoughts, should i run it? Single Elimination, first to 15 deaths loses (no kamikaze heroes)
The finals of each plane will be bo3, and the final 5 planes will compete in FFA for the title BEST OF THE BEST :OOO
i don't expect every best player to sign up but its just for fun...
Thoughts?
TAYLOOP
12-22-2009, 09:14 PM
sounds like a cool idea. Might be a **** load of players though, it'd be tough to organize.
[FN]MONXY FIST
12-22-2009, 09:23 PM
Ban Repair drone.
evilarsenal
12-22-2009, 09:24 PM
that might be a good idea =D
wolf'j'max
12-22-2009, 10:14 PM
MONXY FIST;27355']Ban Repair drone.
Lol we had a good fight monxy.
And i like this idea i subscribe as biplane.
Lol we had a good fight monxy.
And i like this idea i subscribe as biplane.
ufo
12-23-2009, 07:40 AM
MONXY FIST;27355']Ban Repair drone.
Ban power-ups as well.
I am well aware that PU control is an integral part of any competitive game; however, just like in Smash Bros, a no item policy is essential to preserve the sanctity of the 1v1 face-off.
Ban power-ups as well.
I am well aware that PU control is an integral part of any competitive game; however, just like in Smash Bros, a no item policy is essential to preserve the sanctity of the 1v1 face-off.
CCN
12-23-2009, 07:42 AM
This would actually be vry interesting, w/o repair drone sniping may own f-up due to heavy armour use. Creating intense miranda battles.
My only problem is if its open to anyone given any lag >120 people will get P/O.
My only problem is if its open to anyone given any lag >120 people will get P/O.
evilarsenal
12-24-2009, 05:50 PM
so should i do it?
Beagle
12-24-2009, 08:07 PM
Ban Heavy Cannon, Laser, Rubber Hull, Explodet, Loopy, Biplane, Bomber, and Miranda, they're all overpowered.
Honestly this sounded great at the start of the thread but as soon as stuff started getting put up to be 'banned' I nearly cried at the wasted potential. Powerups, I can understand, but don't go down this elitist road of banning everything you can't handle.
Heavy Armor and Repair Drone are the two most popular choices in common play. Ban Repair Drone and you're banning half the community's preffered playstyle for no real reason. Don't be those guys.
Honestly this sounded great at the start of the thread but as soon as stuff started getting put up to be 'banned' I nearly cried at the wasted potential. Powerups, I can understand, but don't go down this elitist road of banning everything you can't handle.
Heavy Armor and Repair Drone are the two most popular choices in common play. Ban Repair Drone and you're banning half the community's preffered playstyle for no real reason. Don't be those guys.
Ajuk999
12-24-2009, 08:12 PM
Ban power-ups as well.
I am well aware that PU control is an integral part of any competitive game; however, just like in Smash Bros, a no item policy is essential to preserve the sanctity of the 1v1 face-off.
Just make a new map with no powerups, just get the maps Official tdm, and go onto map editor and remove the powerups. Wammo! Got it done again,
Also I will be participating if this happens.
Ban Heavy Cannon, Laser, Rubber Hull, Explodet, Loopy, Biplane, Bomber, and Miranda, they're all overpowered.
Honestly this sounded great at the start of the thread but as soon as stuff started getting put up to be 'banned' I nearly cried at the wasted potential. Powerups, I can understand, but don't go down this elitist road of banning everything you can't handle.
Heavy Armor and Repair Drone are the two most popular choices in common play. Ban Repair Drone and you're banning half the community's preffered playstyle for no real reason. Don't be those guys.
I agree, just get rid of the powerups, but we bought the game as is, and those perks come with the game, so anyways how would we ban them even if we wanted to?
I am well aware that PU control is an integral part of any competitive game; however, just like in Smash Bros, a no item policy is essential to preserve the sanctity of the 1v1 face-off.
Just make a new map with no powerups, just get the maps Official tdm, and go onto map editor and remove the powerups. Wammo! Got it done again,
Also I will be participating if this happens.
Ban Heavy Cannon, Laser, Rubber Hull, Explodet, Loopy, Biplane, Bomber, and Miranda, they're all overpowered.
Honestly this sounded great at the start of the thread but as soon as stuff started getting put up to be 'banned' I nearly cried at the wasted potential. Powerups, I can understand, but don't go down this elitist road of banning everything you can't handle.
Heavy Armor and Repair Drone are the two most popular choices in common play. Ban Repair Drone and you're banning half the community's preffered playstyle for no real reason. Don't be those guys.
I agree, just get rid of the powerups, but we bought the game as is, and those perks come with the game, so anyways how would we ban them even if we wanted to?
evilarsenal
12-24-2009, 09:00 PM
no i think ill just ban repair drone... tbh
but still should i do this yes or no ?
but still should i do this yes or no ?
Kuja900
12-24-2009, 11:17 PM
no i think ill just ban repair drone... tbh
but still should i do this yes or no ?
Powerups as well
but still should i do this yes or no ?
Powerups as well
Evan20000
12-24-2009, 11:20 PM
Ban red perks. Whoever has greater willpower will prevail!
Ajuk999
12-25-2009, 12:05 AM
Ban red perks. Whoever has greater willpower will prevail!
And how my friend will you do this? Just by saying it? I think not. Is there a way to actually ban them? or are we just hoping there will be no Red Perks and expecting them to not be used.
And how my friend will you do this? Just by saying it? I think not. Is there a way to actually ban them? or are we just hoping there will be no Red Perks and expecting them to not be used.
pig_bomb
12-25-2009, 01:00 AM
Has anyone in here dueled before? There is nothing wrong with repair or powerups, seriously go play some 1v1s before you speculate on what would be best. To be honest I think having one big tournament would be muh more fun and easy to organise, so full random tourny!! Do it
Since u doubt many people would be down for that please consider doing a plane random it's the real mans duel
Since u doubt many people would be down for that please consider doing a plane random it's the real mans duel
Kuja900
12-25-2009, 01:05 AM
Has anyone in here dueled before? There is nothing wrong with repair or powerups, seriously go play some 1v1s before you speculate on what would be best. To be honest I think having one big tournament would be muh more fun and easy to organise, so full random tourny!! Do it
Since u doubt many people would be down for that please consider doing a plane random it's the real mans duel
If your doing 1v1 tdm if one player has repair that forces you to use repair as well or be widdled down.
Since u doubt many people would be down for that please consider doing a plane random it's the real mans duel
If your doing 1v1 tdm if one player has repair that forces you to use repair as well or be widdled down.
[FN]MONXY FIST
12-25-2009, 04:19 AM
Has anyone in here dueled before? There is nothing wrong with repair or powerups, seriously go play some 1v1s before you speculate on what would be best. To be honest I think having one big tournament would be muh more fun and easy to organise, so full random tourny!! Do it
Since u doubt many people would be down for that please consider doing a plane random it's the real mans duel
So just because i disagree with you i must be ignorant and never dueled before.
Since u doubt many people would be down for that please consider doing a plane random it's the real mans duel
So just because i disagree with you i must be ignorant and never dueled before.
hurripilot
12-25-2009, 05:06 AM
Repair is ok, but powerups should be banned, imo. Yes Pig, I have dueled before, against guys like Eso, Zid, and X. Duels are all about strategy and positioning, out-witting your opponent, not out-poweruping him. Keep repair, ban items. Duels without items are more fun anyway.
P.S.- I want in for the Biplane bracket :)
P.S.- I want in for the Biplane bracket :)
pig_bomb
12-25-2009, 06:38 PM
MONXY FIST;28177']So just because i disagree with you i must be ignorant and never dueled before.
You play biplane of course you disagree with me. Sorry my last
post was bad, here's why ffa duels with powerups work for me. Building up bars isn't an issue between equal players because it takes so many kills to build up a significant advantage. Powerup control is just another aspect of gameplay. Which i've never had a problem with. Having a powerup advantage by no means gurantees a kill. Powerups also male non repair setup much more viable. Powerups make for much more exciting games.
Having good maps for this would be key. There's a thread in the map section where anyone can upload duel maps you made or leAve ideas for me or maimer to make.
You play biplane of course you disagree with me. Sorry my last
post was bad, here's why ffa duels with powerups work for me. Building up bars isn't an issue between equal players because it takes so many kills to build up a significant advantage. Powerup control is just another aspect of gameplay. Which i've never had a problem with. Having a powerup advantage by no means gurantees a kill. Powerups also male non repair setup much more viable. Powerups make for much more exciting games.
Having good maps for this would be key. There's a thread in the map section where anyone can upload duel maps you made or leAve ideas for me or maimer to make.
Loli.ta
12-25-2009, 07:03 PM
Looks like all the Explodets will have Flexible Wings for Green.
Kuja900
12-25-2009, 09:19 PM
Repair is ok, but powerups should be banned, imo. Yes Pig, I have dueled before, against guys like Eso, Zid, and X. Duels are all about strategy and positioning, out-witting your opponent, not out-poweruping him. Keep repair, ban items. Duels without items are more fun anyway.
P.S.- I want in for the Biplane bracket :)
Widdling someone down while hiding behind a rock with repair isn't "outwitting" your opponent its just common sense and extremely gay.
P.S.- I want in for the Biplane bracket :)
Widdling someone down while hiding behind a rock with repair isn't "outwitting" your opponent its just common sense and extremely gay.
Sarah Palin
12-25-2009, 09:54 PM
The tourney should encourage a variety of plane builds. One of the reasons one-life is unpopular is because it always comes down to two repair drone mirandas sniping each other from behind rocks.
Allowing repair drone would lead to it dominating all other options. It would also make matchups much much longer.
Allowing bars would make come-from-behind victories more difficult and encourage runaway leaders. So 1DM is the way to go.
Allowing powerups has its advantages and disadvantages. Powerup control is an important part of Alti. As long as the matches are sufficiently long (15 or 30 deaths) then one powerup won't decide the game.
Allowing repair drone would lead to it dominating all other options. It would also make matchups much much longer.
Allowing bars would make come-from-behind victories more difficult and encourage runaway leaders. So 1DM is the way to go.
Allowing powerups has its advantages and disadvantages. Powerup control is an important part of Alti. As long as the matches are sufficiently long (15 or 30 deaths) then one powerup won't decide the game.
nesnl
12-25-2009, 10:01 PM
I say before you start banning things that you do the tourney with everything allowed. You won't know what works and what doesn't until you let it happen first. If any of the perks end up being a problem then adjust it for the next time. No sense in having all these people posting in this thread about what they think will happen, because the truth is none of us know exactly what will happen. Maybe a rubber hull tracker loopy with reverse thrust wins it all. Try it before you ban it.
tec27
12-25-2009, 10:47 PM
The tourney should encourage a variety of plane builds. One of the reasons one-life is unpopular is because it always comes down to two repair drone mirandas sniping each other from behind rocks.
Allowing repair drone would lead to it dominating all other options. It would also make matchups much much longer.
Allowing bars would make come-from-behind victories more difficult and encourage runaway leaders. So 1DM is the way to go.
Allowing powerups has its advantages and disadvantages. Powerup control is an important part of Alti. As long as the matches are sufficiently long (15 or 30 deaths) then one powerup won't decide the game.
I think banning repair drone is kind of a no-brainer. It seems pretty obvious to me that a person using repair drone and playing properly will pretty much always beat someone without one. Therefore it is pretty gamebreaking.
What I don't see, however, is why bars and powerups should be banned. I think if you want to do duels, you should look at how dueling works in other more established games. Obviously games like Quake are much different than Altitude, but they share a lot of the same features as well. In Quake dueling, item control is incredibly important. In fact, its pretty much one of the most important things in the game, and it adds a great deal of skill and excitement to the game. Why would you want to remove this from Altitude duels?
To add to that, I think doing it in 1DM mode would remove all the importance of item control. Along with that, I don't see the problems you associate with it as being that big. To go back to Quake, getting a kill does provide you with an advantage: you have a short period of time to gain the best positioning, collect items, etc. without worrying about your opponent. Altitude kills provide this same advantage, along with giving you a very small boost to speed/damage/health. Is this extra advantage really so major that it is broken? At what point does the difference in kills become impossible to overcome? IMO, bars do not provide too much of an advantage until you have pretty much already lost the duel, so what does it matter?
Allowing repair drone would lead to it dominating all other options. It would also make matchups much much longer.
Allowing bars would make come-from-behind victories more difficult and encourage runaway leaders. So 1DM is the way to go.
Allowing powerups has its advantages and disadvantages. Powerup control is an important part of Alti. As long as the matches are sufficiently long (15 or 30 deaths) then one powerup won't decide the game.
I think banning repair drone is kind of a no-brainer. It seems pretty obvious to me that a person using repair drone and playing properly will pretty much always beat someone without one. Therefore it is pretty gamebreaking.
What I don't see, however, is why bars and powerups should be banned. I think if you want to do duels, you should look at how dueling works in other more established games. Obviously games like Quake are much different than Altitude, but they share a lot of the same features as well. In Quake dueling, item control is incredibly important. In fact, its pretty much one of the most important things in the game, and it adds a great deal of skill and excitement to the game. Why would you want to remove this from Altitude duels?
To add to that, I think doing it in 1DM mode would remove all the importance of item control. Along with that, I don't see the problems you associate with it as being that big. To go back to Quake, getting a kill does provide you with an advantage: you have a short period of time to gain the best positioning, collect items, etc. without worrying about your opponent. Altitude kills provide this same advantage, along with giving you a very small boost to speed/damage/health. Is this extra advantage really so major that it is broken? At what point does the difference in kills become impossible to overcome? IMO, bars do not provide too much of an advantage until you have pretty much already lost the duel, so what does it matter?
VeRiTaS
12-26-2009, 12:09 AM
I agree with the idea evil...And by the way can 1 person sign up for 2 planes?
If they can I would like to sign up for loopy and explo...if not then only explo...
Now about the "bans"...I woulden't care much if you ban powerups but repair drone??like COMON are you serius ? repair drone is part of a setup like 70% of all players...Especially if you fly with explo like me.It would be rlly anoying to fly around and hunt helth packs just because someone doesnt like repair...
My point is it would be rlly stupid to do that...
If they can I would like to sign up for loopy and explo...if not then only explo...
Now about the "bans"...I woulden't care much if you ban powerups but repair drone??like COMON are you serius ? repair drone is part of a setup like 70% of all players...Especially if you fly with explo like me.It would be rlly anoying to fly around and hunt helth packs just because someone doesnt like repair...
My point is it would be rlly stupid to do that...
Sarah Palin
12-26-2009, 12:37 AM
I say before you start banning things that you do the tourney with everything allowed. You won't know what works and what doesn't until you let it happen first. If any of the perks end up being a problem then adjust it for the next time. No sense in having all these people posting in this thread about what they think will happen, because the truth is none of us know exactly what will happen. Maybe a rubber hull tracker loopy with reverse thrust wins it all. Try it before you ban it.
I know from watching 1DM games. It always comes down to a handful of planes with Repair Drone.
I fly Heavy Armor (even in deathmatches, because I can pick up health) but if any perk is allowed in this tourney then I'm switching to RD, it would be very stupid to play a 1v1 1dm game with ANYTHING but repair drone.
Not all perks are equal in all modes. Repair Drone is very popular in most baseless modes.
I know from watching 1DM games. It always comes down to a handful of planes with Repair Drone.
I fly Heavy Armor (even in deathmatches, because I can pick up health) but if any perk is allowed in this tourney then I'm switching to RD, it would be very stupid to play a 1v1 1dm game with ANYTHING but repair drone.
Not all perks are equal in all modes. Repair Drone is very popular in most baseless modes.
Beagle
12-26-2009, 07:36 AM
Are you guys serious?
Ban Repair Drone because its the winning playstyle? Thats why you want to ban it?
Okay, ban anyone using Heavy Cannon because any Heavy Cannoneer playing right will wipe out a Loopy every time.
Ban Miranda because any Miranda worth their salt will warp-shoot-combo half the planes to death every time.
Ban Turbocharger and Ultracapacitor because they're so much more popular and nobody would use Ace Insti- oh wait, this is really stupid.
So again, are you guys serious? Lets ban everything that is the 'best' playstyle so we all have to use 'worse' playstyles, because in a game where picking a perk setup yourself is all part of the skill, that is what you guys think is ideal, unbiased 'balance'. Brilliant.
Good thing I wouldn't even be allowed in this tournament, I guess. It'd be on American servers I 'spose, so my ping would be too high to not get moaned at.
Ban Repair Drone because its the winning playstyle? Thats why you want to ban it?
Okay, ban anyone using Heavy Cannon because any Heavy Cannoneer playing right will wipe out a Loopy every time.
Ban Miranda because any Miranda worth their salt will warp-shoot-combo half the planes to death every time.
Ban Turbocharger and Ultracapacitor because they're so much more popular and nobody would use Ace Insti- oh wait, this is really stupid.
So again, are you guys serious? Lets ban everything that is the 'best' playstyle so we all have to use 'worse' playstyles, because in a game where picking a perk setup yourself is all part of the skill, that is what you guys think is ideal, unbiased 'balance'. Brilliant.
Good thing I wouldn't even be allowed in this tournament, I guess. It'd be on American servers I 'spose, so my ping would be too high to not get moaned at.
tec27
12-26-2009, 08:23 AM
Its not about banning repair drone because its a winning style, its about banning it because it is broken in this game mode. I come from a background of Starcraft, I completely understand exploiting everything possible in the game to gain an advantage. This is all fine and dandy, except when the thing you are exploiting breaks the game. That is when a ban on the action/item/whatever must be considered, and I think repair drone merits it.
We can consider this with a simple hypothetical example:
Suppose we have 2 players, one with repair drone and one without. Lets assume both players are of equal skill level, and both can avoid flying into walls and flying into corners where they are trapped (I think this is a fair assumption for players who might play in this). If the player with repair drone is damaged, how likely is it that he will actually die? Any decent player that understands the advantage repair drone provides in this situation will run away the second they take damage and continue running until they return to full health. This is a no-brainer. They will never, ever die unless they happen to get very unlucky or suddenly become stupid. This means that you MUST use repair drone or you are far, far behind. That is game-breaking.
This problem does not exist outside of dueling because if two players gang up on someone, they can kill them before they are able to run away. That threat alone prevents people from running the second they are damaged (every time at least).
Edit:
Had a thought about plane choice. Since I think picking/counterpicking planes/setups will probably play a huge role in this, there should probably be some rule/method for dictating first plane choice. I think a double-blind selection at the beginning of a map (maybe through some sort of referee) is probably optimal. From there on players should be free to swap planes as they see fit.
Edit2:
Reread the OP and saw there would be a bracket for each plane. Disregard my last edit in that case :P
We can consider this with a simple hypothetical example:
Suppose we have 2 players, one with repair drone and one without. Lets assume both players are of equal skill level, and both can avoid flying into walls and flying into corners where they are trapped (I think this is a fair assumption for players who might play in this). If the player with repair drone is damaged, how likely is it that he will actually die? Any decent player that understands the advantage repair drone provides in this situation will run away the second they take damage and continue running until they return to full health. This is a no-brainer. They will never, ever die unless they happen to get very unlucky or suddenly become stupid. This means that you MUST use repair drone or you are far, far behind. That is game-breaking.
This problem does not exist outside of dueling because if two players gang up on someone, they can kill them before they are able to run away. That threat alone prevents people from running the second they are damaged (every time at least).
Edit:
Had a thought about plane choice. Since I think picking/counterpicking planes/setups will probably play a huge role in this, there should probably be some rule/method for dictating first plane choice. I think a double-blind selection at the beginning of a map (maybe through some sort of referee) is probably optimal. From there on players should be free to swap planes as they see fit.
Edit2:
Reread the OP and saw there would be a bracket for each plane. Disregard my last edit in that case :P
Beagle
12-26-2009, 10:42 AM
Tec, you say it like its impossible to catch someone who is running away.
In fact, you all are. I don't get why you're basing your entire opinion of repair drone's invincibility on this shaky premise that all the enemy has to do is fly off and they win. There is no rule that says the attacker has to wait while the enemy flies off and repairs.
In fact, you all are. I don't get why you're basing your entire opinion of repair drone's invincibility on this shaky premise that all the enemy has to do is fly off and they win. There is no rule that says the attacker has to wait while the enemy flies off and repairs.
pig_bomb
12-26-2009, 01:10 PM
Basing your opinions on 1dm games is inaccurate because duels are not played on 1dm maps. Deul maps are 2/3 or 1/2 the size of 1dm maps. This means that it is very easy to engage someone who is trying hide and repair. Powerups make this even more balanced because if you are hiding you loose pu control, giving the non repair setups the chance to get health packs.
I'm not speculating, I play alot of duels and have had success with a variety of green and blue perks
As to the over all format, I think it's a bad idea to try to organise 5 individual tournaments. While one plane type duels are fun i think it's going to be a headache o organise and sort out especially with people playing multiple tournys, I know a few people at least who would want to play every category.
The only solution I can think of is to make every plane available with the first pick blind or to have it random
I'm not speculating, I play alot of duels and have had success with a variety of green and blue perks
As to the over all format, I think it's a bad idea to try to organise 5 individual tournaments. While one plane type duels are fun i think it's going to be a headache o organise and sort out especially with people playing multiple tournys, I know a few people at least who would want to play every category.
The only solution I can think of is to make every plane available with the first pick blind or to have it random
evilarsenal
12-26-2009, 05:46 PM
im gonna set this up tomorrow, 1dm, no repair drone,
need to set up the servers for this
registration will be available tomorrow, as many people can sign up, 1 person can sign up once for each plane, (so 5 tournaments lol)
I've decided to ban repair drone for the simple fact that planes can just run away and heal which isnt skillful...
i wanted to set up like the old altitude, where the duels would be 1v1, and if u got hurt, it would be an advantage for the other person the next fight...
No repair drone, 1dm or on a duel map, idk, depends on the server
Sign up tomorrow
need to set up the servers for this
registration will be available tomorrow, as many people can sign up, 1 person can sign up once for each plane, (so 5 tournaments lol)
I've decided to ban repair drone for the simple fact that planes can just run away and heal which isnt skillful...
i wanted to set up like the old altitude, where the duels would be 1v1, and if u got hurt, it would be an advantage for the other person the next fight...
No repair drone, 1dm or on a duel map, idk, depends on the server
Sign up tomorrow
nesnl
12-26-2009, 06:25 PM
Don't ban repair drone, there is nothing out there that says it is going to be as game breaking as you think it is. Listen to what pig_bomb says as he plays a lot of duels and makes a lot of duel maps. If you play the tournament and then after it is done people are complaining about repair drone, then you can make a better argument for either it's change in the mode or just banning it for the next tournament.
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