Vania
01-03-2010, 04:41 PM
These are the agility values for all planes:
explo: 5.6
biplane: 6.5
bomber: 7.0
miranda: 7.0
loopy: 8.4
I was thinking switching the values beetween bomber and biplane would make a lot of sense. Here's why:
biplane needs more agility because it attacks people from very close. With more agility the choice of flexi wings wouldnt be so obvious.
The bomber is better armored, has a very powerful attack, and it has a tail gun!, so it doesnt need that much agility.
Attacking the bomber from the front or from the back = death, just like an explodet, thats why they should have less agility, that way they have to work harder to cover their weak spots.
If you feel the bomber would be too weakened by this change(I dont think so) then give it more health, that fits better into his role.
It's a small change but hopefully it will balance things out.
Lately I very rarely see recoiless(or dogfighter) biplanes when playing, it's usually just me in the server.
(seriously where have all the recoiless gone?)
So maybe this will bring recoiless back, which in my opinion is the most fun plane in the game.
explo: 5.6
biplane: 6.5
bomber: 7.0
miranda: 7.0
loopy: 8.4
I was thinking switching the values beetween bomber and biplane would make a lot of sense. Here's why:
biplane needs more agility because it attacks people from very close. With more agility the choice of flexi wings wouldnt be so obvious.
The bomber is better armored, has a very powerful attack, and it has a tail gun!, so it doesnt need that much agility.
Attacking the bomber from the front or from the back = death, just like an explodet, thats why they should have less agility, that way they have to work harder to cover their weak spots.
If you feel the bomber would be too weakened by this change(I dont think so) then give it more health, that fits better into his role.
It's a small change but hopefully it will balance things out.
Lately I very rarely see recoiless(or dogfighter) biplanes when playing, it's usually just me in the server.
(seriously where have all the recoiless gone?)
So maybe this will bring recoiless back, which in my opinion is the most fun plane in the game.
DMCM
01-03-2010, 05:02 PM
I love recoiless biplane, but it bugs me that a loopy can turn faster than my biplane with flexible wings and that a bomber can turn faster than such a small plane too. And if a biplane gets EMP'd it can't turn at all so we're dead meat. So, maybe this wouldn't be such a bad idea.
Also, does flexible wings add a specific number of agility to those values or does it work differently?
Also, does flexible wings add a specific number of agility to those values or does it work differently?
eth
01-03-2010, 05:24 PM
Great, another player who feels his plane is "too weak" and "needs a buff". I'm not sure but I get the feeling I've heard this all before.. somewhere.
Biplane isn't even remotely underpowered. This is why you actually, shock horror, even see it in league games! Ask any of the major biplane users if they think biplane is underpowered: I'm pretty positive you'll get a resounding NO. Can you at least think a bit about your whine and nerdrage before you post it on the forums? Like, base it on something else than "I didn't see THAT many biplanes today and I was doing kinda bad so..".
DMCM, if you want to give biplane the same turning power as loopy, why the **** would people play loopy then? I mean, you get more health, equal turning, and vastly superior damage - you'd make a plane obsolete. Not a great idea?
...
I should just write a generic, angry response and paste it into every single baseless "NERF THIS BUFF THAT" thread. (No, "it would make sense" is not a good argument either.)
Biplane isn't even remotely underpowered. This is why you actually, shock horror, even see it in league games! Ask any of the major biplane users if they think biplane is underpowered: I'm pretty positive you'll get a resounding NO. Can you at least think a bit about your whine and nerdrage before you post it on the forums? Like, base it on something else than "I didn't see THAT many biplanes today and I was doing kinda bad so..".
DMCM, if you want to give biplane the same turning power as loopy, why the **** would people play loopy then? I mean, you get more health, equal turning, and vastly superior damage - you'd make a plane obsolete. Not a great idea?
...
I should just write a generic, angry response and paste it into every single baseless "NERF THIS BUFF THAT" thread. (No, "it would make sense" is not a good argument either.)
DMCM
01-03-2010, 05:33 PM
Biplane isn't underpowered, but it's just silly that a big fat plane has more agility than it.
I never said anything about having the same agility as loopy. I'm just saying biplanes are forced to use flexible wings to fight in close range and even with it, they still lose to the 564367 loopies that are always in official servers. A small change like Vania suggested wouldn't make loopy any worse. Loopy still has a big advantge from medium/ long range. And so does bomber, and explodet too.
I never said anything about having the same agility as loopy. I'm just saying biplanes are forced to use flexible wings to fight in close range and even with it, they still lose to the 564367 loopies that are always in official servers. A small change like Vania suggested wouldn't make loopy any worse. Loopy still has a big advantge from medium/ long range. And so does bomber, and explodet too.
eth
01-03-2010, 05:42 PM
Yea, I'm just gonna wait for Beagle to come laugh at your ridiculous loopy > biplane statement. If you get raped continuosly by loopies as biplane, it isn't the biplane, IT'S YOU!
The silly thing about bomber having more agility than biplane doesn't have anything to do with the biplane - it's the bomber. You can drag bomber's agility down for all I care - it _might_ even be a good thing, I don't know - but messing with a perfectly balanced plane(yes, I'm talking about biplane here) is just beyond retarded.
The silly thing about bomber having more agility than biplane doesn't have anything to do with the biplane - it's the bomber. You can drag bomber's agility down for all I care - it _might_ even be a good thing, I don't know - but messing with a perfectly balanced plane(yes, I'm talking about biplane here) is just beyond retarded.
NfoMonkey
01-03-2010, 05:58 PM
Yea, I'm just gonna wait for Beagle to come laugh at your ridiculous loopy > biplane statement. If you get raped continuosly by loopies as biplane, it isn't the biplane, IT'S YOU!
imo most biplanefags would laugh at that statement, including me: LUL!
perhaps take off a point of bombers agility (it already has front and back covered with 2 guns, doesnt need that much agility)... but biplane in itself is close to perfect the way it is.
changing the agilities would make biplane (even more with flexi) capable or outmanouvering and raping everything in sight with its burst damage, which would open up 762 topics about "OMG BIPLAAIN IS SO IMBA NURF IT PLZ!!!!111".
imo most biplanefags would laugh at that statement, including me: LUL!
perhaps take off a point of bombers agility (it already has front and back covered with 2 guns, doesnt need that much agility)... but biplane in itself is close to perfect the way it is.
changing the agilities would make biplane (even more with flexi) capable or outmanouvering and raping everything in sight with its burst damage, which would open up 762 topics about "OMG BIPLAAIN IS SO IMBA NURF IT PLZ!!!!111".
Reach
01-03-2010, 06:07 PM
From what I know, in real life, a Biplane is highly maneuverable, but slower than other types of planes due to the extra drag created. While that drag isnt very noticeable, it does create for slower gains in altitude (Accurately reflected in-game), but I agree the turn rate of biplanes could be a little tweaked.
Im not saying biplanes are underpowered, or bombers are overpowered, but this would be a effective, realistic, and generally nicer touch overall.
Just my 2 cents.
Heck, you can simply bump up the biplane agility and leave bombers alone, or vice versa.
Im not saying biplanes are underpowered, or bombers are overpowered, but this would be a effective, realistic, and generally nicer touch overall.
Just my 2 cents.
Heck, you can simply bump up the biplane agility and leave bombers alone, or vice versa.
nesnl
01-03-2010, 06:08 PM
Also, the "but a bomber in real life wouldn't have as much agility as a biplane" argument is always lame. People, please stop making arguments based off what things are like in real life. This game is not real life. I think the agility of the two planes are fine. Also, most people aren't taking into consideration all the other stats and factors such as top speed, total health, etc, etc, etc.
What do you think of the Miranda agility? In my experience with UFOs I am not sure that this number accurately reflects it or not. Thoughts?
What do you think of the Miranda agility? In my experience with UFOs I am not sure that this number accurately reflects it or not. Thoughts?
Vania
01-03-2010, 06:17 PM
A 0.5 change in agility is quite small, really.
And who said anything about giving biplane the same agility as loopy? Why are you making stuff up?
If anyone is nerd raging its you eth, this game is not perfectly balanced, a game is never perfectly balanced, and getting all worked up because someone suggests a tiny little change is just stupid.
OH NO PLZ DONT CHANGE MY LITTLE GAME BUHUUHUUUU
PS: There are very few recoiless players nowadays and that's a fact, coincidentally at the same time that explo and miranda popularity rose like 400000%
And who said anything about giving biplane the same agility as loopy? Why are you making stuff up?
If anyone is nerd raging its you eth, this game is not perfectly balanced, a game is never perfectly balanced, and getting all worked up because someone suggests a tiny little change is just stupid.
OH NO PLZ DONT CHANGE MY LITTLE GAME BUHUUHUUUU
PS: There are very few recoiless players nowadays and that's a fact, coincidentally at the same time that explo and miranda popularity rose like 400000%
Reach
01-03-2010, 06:19 PM
Also, the "but a bomber in real life wouldn't have as much agility as a biplane" argument is always lame. People, please stop making arguments based off what things are like in real life. This game is not real life. I think the agility of the two planes are fine. Also, most people aren't taking into consideration all the other stats and factors such as top speed, total health, etc, etc, etc.
What do you think of the Miranda agility? In my experience with UFOs I am not sure that this number accurately reflects it or not. Thoughts?
A ufo, if the disc like kind is what your thinking of, isn't affected by gravity the way 'randa is. So that changes it up a bit.
And the bomber in real life bit- I used that example simply as a point of reference. Real life doesnt have dogfights in space- wings dont work! XD
And the bomber has more health, 2 directions to attack from, more damage (At range), more range, and in this case more agility.
The biplane has massive damage up close, more speed, same/better range (But less damage at range) and can only shoot forward.
A good biplane can outmanuever the bomber (If you're not lagging, you can dodge the grenades/bombs) but a bomber cant dodge bullets (small and fast, unless hes going really fast as well)
So it balances, in a sense.
Besides, if you balence the game too much it becomes boring. (World of Warcraft, for instance...) And classes lose their "omgwtf" appeal.
What do you think of the Miranda agility? In my experience with UFOs I am not sure that this number accurately reflects it or not. Thoughts?
A ufo, if the disc like kind is what your thinking of, isn't affected by gravity the way 'randa is. So that changes it up a bit.
And the bomber in real life bit- I used that example simply as a point of reference. Real life doesnt have dogfights in space- wings dont work! XD
And the bomber has more health, 2 directions to attack from, more damage (At range), more range, and in this case more agility.
The biplane has massive damage up close, more speed, same/better range (But less damage at range) and can only shoot forward.
A good biplane can outmanuever the bomber (If you're not lagging, you can dodge the grenades/bombs) but a bomber cant dodge bullets (small and fast, unless hes going really fast as well)
So it balances, in a sense.
Besides, if you balence the game too much it becomes boring. (World of Warcraft, for instance...) And classes lose their "omgwtf" appeal.
AtomikPi
01-03-2010, 06:29 PM
PS: There are very few recoiless players nowadays and that's a fact, coincidentally at the same time that explo and miranda popularity rose like 400000%
Maybe, but there aren't any imbalances supporting this - explo hasn't been tweaked in months, nor has trickster - people have just realized that they're good. They're both at best minorly imbalanced, and biplane is just fine as it is. Even if tweaks were in order, they would be to the possibly imbalanced perks, not the balanced biplane.
Maybe, but there aren't any imbalances supporting this - explo hasn't been tweaked in months, nor has trickster - people have just realized that they're good. They're both at best minorly imbalanced, and biplane is just fine as it is. Even if tweaks were in order, they would be to the possibly imbalanced perks, not the balanced biplane.
[FN]MONXY FIST
01-03-2010, 06:51 PM
Yea, I'm just gonna wait for Beagle to come laugh at your ridiculous loopy > biplane statement. If you get raped continuosly by loopies as biplane, it isn't the biplane, IT'S YOU!
EMP'd biplanes are cannon fodder and I'm sure my aged(well, actually, she's dead now) grandma could kill them,
Although I find it funny that Biplane is listed as an 'easy' matchup even though cute little 2-shottable Loopies are my main food source O.o
He already laughed at you. In my opinion the non acid loopy vs recoilless/dogfighter is the most imba matchup in the game.
EMP'd biplanes are cannon fodder and I'm sure my aged(well, actually, she's dead now) grandma could kill them,
Although I find it funny that Biplane is listed as an 'easy' matchup even though cute little 2-shottable Loopies are my main food source O.o
He already laughed at you. In my opinion the non acid loopy vs recoilless/dogfighter is the most imba matchup in the game.
hurripilot
01-03-2010, 07:27 PM
I think the main issue here is that the Biplane, even at highest skill levels, is not an "omg-holy-****-I-get-gold-bars-every-life-and-my-ratio-is-300/1" aircraft. In order to be successful with Bipe, you need to get in close and get your hands dirty. The reason it's called things like "the Gentleman's plane" and "the Man plane" is because you need to develop crazy skills in just about every category of maneuvers this game has in order to fly it even decently. And you gotta have big e-nads.
Going out in a Bipe with Beagle or Monxy skills is not going to get you the same ratio results as going out in a Miranda with Snow or UFO skills will.
IMHO, Bipey is just fine the way she is.
Going out in a Bipe with Beagle or Monxy skills is not going to get you the same ratio results as going out in a Miranda with Snow or UFO skills will.
IMHO, Bipey is just fine the way she is.
[Y]
01-03-2010, 07:37 PM
lolz monxy
just curious, do the benefits of flexy wings get cancelled when EMP'd?
like does an EMP'd flex wing biplane turn faster than an EMP'd biplane with repair?
just curious, do the benefits of flexy wings get cancelled when EMP'd?
like does an EMP'd flex wing biplane turn faster than an EMP'd biplane with repair?
nesnl
01-03-2010, 07:40 PM
;30131']lolz monxy
just curious, do the benefits of flexy wings get cancelled when EMP'd?
like does an EMP'd flex wing biplane turn faster than an EMP'd biplane with repair?
http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=649
just curious, do the benefits of flexy wings get cancelled when EMP'd?
like does an EMP'd flex wing biplane turn faster than an EMP'd biplane with repair?
http://altitudegame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=649
eth
01-03-2010, 10:36 PM
Yeah Vania I'm just gonna give up here - I wrote you nerdraged because I could find no other good reason for your most recent "balance" request. If you actually backed this up a bit I'd take you a lot more seriously, but until then..
Oh and monxy I'm pretty sure I never said it was "easy" to kill a biplane - what I'm saying here is that if he's getting raped with a 1-20 ratio with biplane, it's his fault for being terrible, not the biplane itself.
Oh and monxy I'm pretty sure I never said it was "easy" to kill a biplane - what I'm saying here is that if he's getting raped with a 1-20 ratio with biplane, it's his fault for being terrible, not the biplane itself.
York
01-03-2010, 11:46 PM
hate it. biplane would be soooo stacked. its the way it is because its a perfect balance of all the planes.
Vania
01-03-2010, 11:52 PM
For the record, I'm not saying biplane is bad, I do pretty well with it actually.
To be honest I dont know how you people use any other plane but recoiless, they all SUCK!!
But this bit here by hurri is very true:
Going out in a Bipe with Beagle or Monxy skills is not going to get you the same ratio results as going out in a Miranda with Snow or UFO skills will.
Recoiless biplane is balanced in a 1v1 duel, but in a TBD match the risk you take by getting so close to the enemy outweights its good qualities IMO and thats why you dont end up with great ratios.
Pi : Its true that explo hasnt been tweaked lately, but just the fact that there are more explos around makes it less desirable to use a biplane(cause remote is very hard with bip) I still kill remotes all the time but usually go down with my prey.
To be honest I dont know how you people use any other plane but recoiless, they all SUCK!!
But this bit here by hurri is very true:
Going out in a Bipe with Beagle or Monxy skills is not going to get you the same ratio results as going out in a Miranda with Snow or UFO skills will.
Recoiless biplane is balanced in a 1v1 duel, but in a TBD match the risk you take by getting so close to the enemy outweights its good qualities IMO and thats why you dont end up with great ratios.
Pi : Its true that explo hasnt been tweaked lately, but just the fact that there are more explos around makes it less desirable to use a biplane(cause remote is very hard with bip) I still kill remotes all the time but usually go down with my prey.
hurripilot
01-04-2010, 12:01 AM
To be honest I dont know how you people use any other plane but recoiless, they all SUCK!!
Whoa whoa whoa there partner, slow down. Let's not play the "My perk is the best, yours all suck" game, shall we? (btw, Isn't it always recoilless guys that start that ****? :p) The fact that your skill set doesn't work well with a given perk setup does not mean that that setup sucks in general. It just sucks for you, in the same way that Recoilless sucks for me. If you're trying to get Biplane pilots united behind you, this isn't the way to do it.
Whoa whoa whoa there partner, slow down. Let's not play the "My perk is the best, yours all suck" game, shall we? (btw, Isn't it always recoilless guys that start that ****? :p) The fact that your skill set doesn't work well with a given perk setup does not mean that that setup sucks in general. It just sucks for you, in the same way that Recoilless sucks for me. If you're trying to get Biplane pilots united behind you, this isn't the way to do it.
mled
01-04-2010, 12:10 AM
this game is balanced the way it is
BUT i do agree on this FACT this should be switched around i dont see why not
BUT i do agree on this FACT this should be switched around i dont see why not
DMCM
01-04-2010, 12:22 AM
Eth I never said I got raped by loopies or that I have 1-20 ratios. I have a normal ratio (1.30 something) and I do just fine with recoiless considering I'm still learning. Don't misunderstand every balance discussion as nerdrage, because that's not what this is about. I'm not angry at the loopies (well, I only hate the suicidal noobs who follow you everywhere) because their EMP is getting me killed more than anything else. It's quite the opposite. I gave up on loopy because it's not a challenging plane. I got 65,000 kills on it and I assure you thousands of them were biplanes I EMP'd and killed easily. And now that I'm on the other side I realise that none of those kills required any skill. It's easy for a biplane to get EMP'd and become helpless. It simply can't move. So it would be nice if there wasn't such a big gap between biplanes' and loopy's agility. Again, I'm just saying it. Like Snowsickle says all the time, we should bing it up on the forum if we think it would improve the game.
TomBRowkaH
01-04-2010, 02:57 AM
Biplane is pretty good. Except maybe change dogfighter, but that's not a big deal. If anything it is one of the better planes, IMO. I didn't even know about these agility values, but the bomber is clearly not more "agile" than the biplane from a actual game standpoint, so I don't care.
I'm not trying to say "you suck learn 2 play" or something, just talking about my own experiences here.
I'm not trying to say "you suck learn 2 play" or something, just talking about my own experiences here.
Vania
01-04-2010, 02:57 AM
Whoa whoa whoa there partner, slow down. Let's not play the "My perk is the best, yours all suck" game, shall we?
Hurri I wasnt talking about perks, I was talking about all other planes and heavy canon too. Explo, Randa, Loopy, Bomber, and HC, they all suck, gay ass planes BUAHAHAHAHA!
Hurri I wasnt talking about perks, I was talking about all other planes and heavy canon too. Explo, Randa, Loopy, Bomber, and HC, they all suck, gay ass planes BUAHAHAHAHA!
as red as black
01-04-2010, 03:06 AM
I always used to think it was weird that bomber had pretty good agility and that the biplane was pretty stiff without flexi wings.
increasing biplane's agility would make it crazy good, so I'm against that.
I'm for nerfing bomber's agility to that of biplane, but I could really care less if it was nerfed or not. I just think it's weird that the bomber has pretty good agility even though their real life counterparts are a bit sluggish and heavy feeling.
increasing biplane's agility would make it crazy good, so I'm against that.
I'm for nerfing bomber's agility to that of biplane, but I could really care less if it was nerfed or not. I just think it's weird that the bomber has pretty good agility even though their real life counterparts are a bit sluggish and heavy feeling.
Sarah Palin
01-05-2010, 04:23 AM
Ok three things:
1. Biplanes DO NOT use Flexi in order to beat Loopies, Mirandas or Explos. They use it because turn-rate is the deciding factor in Biplane-VS-Biplane battles. If you up the Biplane's native turn rate most Biplanes will still use Flexiwings to beat other Biplanes.
2. Biplane is not supposed to auto-defeat Loopy. Loopy is a capable dogfighter especially when it has Heavy Armor to avoid the 2-shot. A Loopy who is good with EMP can eat biplanes for lunch. (BTW, FU to any biplane player who says it takes "no skill" to hit a biplane with an EMP).
3. Bomber may have a higher turn rate but it is slower AND it is a bigger target. Without the turn rate it would be a sitting duck with less HP than whale.
1. Biplanes DO NOT use Flexi in order to beat Loopies, Mirandas or Explos. They use it because turn-rate is the deciding factor in Biplane-VS-Biplane battles. If you up the Biplane's native turn rate most Biplanes will still use Flexiwings to beat other Biplanes.
2. Biplane is not supposed to auto-defeat Loopy. Loopy is a capable dogfighter especially when it has Heavy Armor to avoid the 2-shot. A Loopy who is good with EMP can eat biplanes for lunch. (BTW, FU to any biplane player who says it takes "no skill" to hit a biplane with an EMP).
3. Bomber may have a higher turn rate but it is slower AND it is a bigger target. Without the turn rate it would be a sitting duck with less HP than whale.
Reach
01-05-2010, 05:25 AM
Ok three things:
3. Bomber may have a higher turn rate but it is slower AND it is a bigger target. Without the turn rate it would be a sitting duck with less HP than whale.
I agree with everything not in bold
1) bombers look like whales
2) they have health like whale
3) sitting duck does not = whale
4) turn rate doesnt lower hp
:D
3. Bomber may have a higher turn rate but it is slower AND it is a bigger target. Without the turn rate it would be a sitting duck with less HP than whale.
I agree with everything not in bold
1) bombers look like whales
2) they have health like whale
3) sitting duck does not = whale
4) turn rate doesnt lower hp
:D
DryBone
01-05-2010, 06:11 AM
No clue what to say here. Not much of a biplane player so i leave no comment but on the bomber side, well bomber's gernades goes in arches so sometimes it pretty hard to aim while the others go in straight lines. So don't really think there should be much change.
And there is always the "stall" to turn a bit more faster when emp
And there is always the "stall" to turn a bit more faster when emp
Obama
01-05-2010, 06:33 AM
ok i play bomber all the time and my back gun sucks lmfao and sometimes i go againt bi plane i lose lmfao im lvl 60 im pretty good idk why but i lose ok so bomber need to stick the way it should :))
mled
01-05-2010, 10:08 PM
A 0.5 change in agility is quite small, really.
And who said anything about giving biplane the same agility as loopy? Why are you making stuff up?
If anyone is nerd raging its you eth, this game is not perfectly balanced, a game is never perfectly balanced, and getting all worked up because someone suggests a tiny little change is just stupid.
OH NO PLZ DONT CHANGE MY LITTLE GAME BUHUUHUUUU
PS: There are very few recoiless players nowadays and that's a fact, coincidentally at the same time that explo and miranda popularity rose like 400000%
YA i agree with vania on this 1 no game is perfectly balanced and this i must say is a nice suggestion
And who said anything about giving biplane the same agility as loopy? Why are you making stuff up?
If anyone is nerd raging its you eth, this game is not perfectly balanced, a game is never perfectly balanced, and getting all worked up because someone suggests a tiny little change is just stupid.
OH NO PLZ DONT CHANGE MY LITTLE GAME BUHUUHUUUU
PS: There are very few recoiless players nowadays and that's a fact, coincidentally at the same time that explo and miranda popularity rose like 400000%
YA i agree with vania on this 1 no game is perfectly balanced and this i must say is a nice suggestion
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